15:05:18 <kinger> #startmeeting
15:05:18 <remobot> Meeting started Sun Jun 10 15:05:18 2012 UTC.  The chair is kinger. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:05:18 <remobot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:05:28 <kinger> Hi and welome
15:05:46 <kinger> #topic General update on Mozilla Reps Camp 2012 planning
15:05:55 <kinger> Floor is yours William
15:06:15 <williamq> thanks kinger
15:06:19 <kinger> Floor is yours williamq
15:06:28 <williamq> so, quick update
15:06:43 <williamq> all logistics are done
15:06:53 <williamq> we should now concentrate on content and format of Camp
15:07:08 <williamq> I update the wiki #link https://wiki.mozilla.org/ReMo/Council/ReMo_Camp_2012
15:07:12 <williamq> *updated
15:07:29 <williamq> please have a careful look at it this week and edit as you see fit
15:07:38 <kinger> #info many Mozilla services are down during this meeting, wiki, etherpad, ....
15:07:56 <williamq> basically, Friday will be presentations throughout the day
15:08:30 <williamq> to get everyone aligned Engagement priorities, and main Mozilla product priorities for 2012 ie. B2G, Fennec and Fx Desktop
15:09:18 <williamq> the follow day (Saturday) will be solely focused on ReMo against the backdrop of the Friday presentations
15:09:33 <williamq> I'd jotted down a few ideas for sessions on Saturday
15:09:38 <kinger> Should we have a special meeting about format and content? I think we agreed that last meeting
15:09:38 <williamq> but please modify/improve at will
15:09:54 <williamq> yes, we should have that with mentors
15:10:12 <williamq> i first wanted to go over this briefly dring the council meeting and get council memebrs aligned
15:10:20 <kinger> #action williamq to schedule mentors meeting about Camp content
15:10:25 <williamq> and then we'll branch out to mentors and set up a meeting this week or next
15:10:27 <Lucy_> we have a lot of things we've said in the past should wait for the remocamp, do we have a list of those things?
15:10:41 <pierros> Lucy, no list :(
15:10:51 <pierros> but we know anecdotally
15:10:55 <Lucy_> we should make a list to make sure we dont' forget something!
15:10:56 <kinger> Lucy_ : in the logs from pervious meeting?
15:11:04 <Lucy_> yeah and possibly in bugs
15:11:12 <kinger> any volunteers?
15:11:26 <williamq> i think more or less everything that will have long term impact on program should wait the camp
15:11:50 <kinger> #action make list of things we want to talk about at Remo Camo
15:12:05 <kinger> yes, everyhting is fair game
15:12:15 <kinger> But a list would be useful for sure
15:12:23 <williamq> there is a link to a pad on the Camp etherpad https://etherpad.mozilla.org/remo-camp-2012-onepager
15:12:27 <williamq> but we can't access it now :(
15:12:29 <Lucy_> yeah then we can be intentional about what we don't cover
15:12:42 <kinger> Lucy_ good point
15:12:43 <williamq> #link https://remo.etherpad.mozilla.org/remo-camp-topics
15:13:21 <pierros> williamq, placeholder?
15:13:23 <williamq> i'll be happy to volunteer to own updating this list
15:13:44 <kinger> I can help too
15:13:46 <williamq> I'll work on it as soon as it's accessible again
15:13:48 <Lucy_> yeah i'll help
15:13:48 <williamq> kinger: great
15:14:02 <kinger> williamq : ping me after 1st pass and I'll look at it
15:14:04 <williamq> can we assign two owners to an action using remobot?
15:14:18 <Lucy_> make sure to file bugs so we can mark them all remocamp in the whiteboard
15:14:18 <pierros> yep
15:14:19 <pierros> #undo
15:14:43 <pierros> #action williamq and kinger make list of things we want to talk about at Remo Camo
15:15:05 <kinger> did that undo not undo the link?
15:15:11 <williamq> #action Lucy to go over topics list and make sure appropriate bugs are filed
15:15:18 <Lucy_> ;)\
15:15:31 <kinger> Anyone have any further questions / points on this topic?
15:15:43 <williamq> just one more point
15:15:46 <williamq> regarding participants
15:16:06 <williamq> so far, we have a few who have declined their invitation to the Camp
15:16:14 <Rami> sorry for late
15:16:20 <pierros> (based on practical problems)
15:16:31 <williamq> Marcelo Araldi (Brazil), Nikola (Croatia), Viking (Indonesia) and Amir (Israel)
15:16:55 <williamq> oh and Haitham (Egypt)
15:17:15 <williamq> althogh I'm going to call the Embassy tomorrow to see if we can speed up his visa situation
15:17:26 <kinger> Hi Rami, np
15:17:28 <pierros> exams/exams/travelling/job/visa
15:18:05 <kinger> What is the final count for actual attendees?
15:18:23 <pierros> williamq, you have the number?
15:18:28 <williamq> 22 Reps + 2 staff so far
15:18:46 <williamq> but we should expect at least 3 more staff
15:18:47 <kinger> Great, quite a good number even with cry-offs
15:18:51 <williamq> yeah
15:19:02 <Lucy_> we should make sure to have a good remote story this time ;)
15:19:09 <williamq> :)
15:19:24 <kinger> Some folks have alredy asked for that
15:19:31 <williamq> yep
15:19:35 <kinger> pierros, can you investigate options?
15:20:04 <Lucy_> one easy thing is to make really good use of the etherpads for taking notes. Make sure everything actually gets down, not just summaries.
15:20:19 <Lucy_> but hopefully we can have video streaming as well
15:20:25 <williamq> that was the problem in Athens
15:20:34 <kinger> #action pierros to investigate remote streaming and sharing options from ReMo Camp
15:20:38 <williamq> everyone was so engaged in the conversations that it was really hard to take notes
15:20:44 <kinger> (silence = consent) :)
15:21:00 <williamq> kinger: :)
15:21:03 <williamq> i like that
15:21:12 <kinger> only in this room
15:21:24 <Lucy_> maybe we should ask for some volunteers to help steward the notes? I know I volunteer to do it cuz i know what it's like
15:21:40 <williamq> right
15:21:42 <kinger> one option yes
15:21:51 <pierros> kinger, consent indeed :)
15:22:04 <kinger> anything else on this topic?
15:22:08 <williamq> nope
15:22:12 <pierros> I will be streaming the event (based on airmozilla)
15:22:15 <kinger> ok moving on...
15:22:26 <kinger> #topic WedDev + Tools update
15:22:33 <kinger> Floor to pierros
15:22:51 <pierros> so as you know we are now on 0.2.5 of ReMo
15:23:14 <pierros> and we are actively building 0.3 which will basically be Events
15:23:22 <kinger> yes
15:23:26 <pierros> you can see the parts of 0.3 broken down here:
15:23:48 <pierros> #link https://remo.etherpad.mozilla.org/sarek-planning
15:24:12 <pierros> and we are requesting feedback (in mailing list on specific topics and functionality)
15:24:38 <pierros> during the Camp we will be on the final stages of dev so we will still have time to change up things and test away
15:24:50 <williamq> that's great news
15:25:02 <pierros> discoverability of events will be awesome and reporting back functions will be really helpful
15:25:09 <pierros> (more on a mail in reps-mentors)
15:25:14 <pierros> any Q?
15:25:31 <williamq> #idea organize a test sprint of 0.3 during ReMo Camp
15:25:38 <pierros> also we outsourced some webdev tasks (Giorgos compiled a list) and we already have people working on a couple of tasks
15:25:45 <pierros> williamq, yep good one :)
15:26:12 <williamq> can you confirm that all reommended changes to the "Monthly report" UX will be taken into account for 0.3 ? (#link http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.reps.mentors/browse_thread/thread/72f0125f73762cfd#)
15:27:15 <pierros> we already filled the bug (as I replied on the thread)
15:27:22 <kinger> That needs a bug
15:27:24 <kinger> oh
15:27:33 <pierros> and it is not UX.. it is wording and UI :)
15:27:40 <williamq> sorry i meant UI
15:28:14 <kinger> Any other features apart from Events going into 0.3?
15:28:27 <pierros> discoverability on people page
15:28:28 <williamq> i think we're good
15:28:30 <williamq> one last comment
15:28:45 <pierros> you will be able to loging with mozillian acount to mail reps (even if you are not a rep)
15:28:54 <pierros> login*
15:29:04 <kinger> very good
15:29:35 <williamq> question: will we be able to "Select" recipients when mailing Reps in 0.3 ?
15:29:59 <kinger> williamq : you mean multiple?
15:30:12 <pierros> from people page no, it will be the query you get
15:30:16 <williamq> the fact that we can only do a group email (or export and the delete specific email addresses) is tedious
15:30:29 <pierros> for mentees you should but I dont think we have time to code it (will add it as P2)
15:30:35 <williamq> sorry, i mean for mentees
15:30:53 <pierros> ok we will look into it
15:31:08 <williamq> I would say this is P1, does anyone else think so?
15:31:20 <kinger> #action pierros to look into selection of reps to email
15:31:28 <pierros> P1 is events, P1 is discoverability.
15:31:35 <williamq> I don't think many Mentors are communicating with their mentees precisely because of this
15:31:48 <kinger> If it was not in the original plan for 0.3, p2 sounds right
15:31:48 <pierros> mentors functionality is definately P2 but that does not mean that we will not do it :)
15:31:55 <kinger> but it is important
15:32:11 <pierros> P2 means that we will not drop any P1 to do it
15:32:12 <pierros> :)
15:32:30 <williamq> ok
15:32:47 <kinger> Ok moving on....
15:32:58 <kinger> #topic SOPs pending major updates
15:33:10 <kinger> Any updates from anyone here?
15:33:24 <williamq> yes
15:33:31 <williamq> https://wiki.mozilla.org/ReMo/SOPs/Budget
15:33:59 <williamq> sorry, i'm looking up links
15:34:01 <williamq> one sec
15:34:50 <williamq> are we all good with Nukeador's suggestions to change the required lead-time for budget requests ?
15:35:02 <kinger> Yes
15:35:07 <williamq> he recommends 2 weeks for budgets under $500 and 6 weeks for above $500
15:35:12 <kinger> But 500 is an arbitrary number
15:35:27 <Rami> yes
15:35:42 <pierros> if we are good on that I will request it as hard coded functionality in bugzilla form
15:35:45 <kinger> For example, lead in of 6 weeks for 520 is a stretch ... we can make exceptions in some cases
15:35:53 <pierros> (and only reps-admins will be able to override it)
15:36:16 <pierros> kinger, correct but we need to draw the line on a number :)
15:36:22 <kinger> indeed
15:36:30 <williamq> i think $500 is ok
15:36:48 <williamq> the majority of requests are under 500
15:36:53 <kinger> #action pierros to hard code budget/time limit in bugzilla budget form
15:37:39 <pierros> +1 :)
15:37:42 <kinger> Do we need to discuss the Welcome pack issue?
15:37:48 <kinger> "Welcome Pack Policy" https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=762607
15:37:48 <remobot> 04Bug 762607: is not accessible.
15:37:49 <kinger> Let's agree on this today
15:37:52 <Lucy_> btw, what's up with the budget taskforce?
15:38:15 <williamq> yeah, my bad, i need to set it up
15:38:18 <williamq> this is P1 for me this week
15:38:24 <Lucy_> k!
15:38:46 <kinger> #action williamq p1 to set up budget task force this coming week
15:39:16 <williamq> are we still good to have williamq, Lucy, Vineel and Deimidis on this task force?
15:39:32 <Lucy_> I'm good
15:39:51 <williamq> before we discuss the welcome packs
15:40:17 <williamq> i'd like to finish discussing the budget request form changes and process to approve budgets
15:40:40 <pierros> can I recap ?
15:40:44 <williamq> how do we want to manage "exceptions"
15:40:50 <williamq> pierros: please do
15:40:53 <pierros> ok so:
15:41:00 <pierros> A rep goes to the form to file a request
15:41:33 <pierros> if request is under 2 weeks for <500 USD and under 6 weeks in general he gets an error
15:41:40 <pierros> with a message that he needs to contact his mentor
15:42:07 <pierros> all mentors are informed about their ability to overide the restriction (not straigthfowrd, they will have to check a box or something)
15:42:27 <pierros> the communication between mentor and mentee happens in a sense of bounce back
15:42:40 <pierros> (to aliavate some traffic from budget task force)
15:42:58 <pierros> also mentors have the ability to evaluate the "urgency and importance" of the request
15:43:06 <pierros> are we good on that all? :)
15:43:14 <kinger> so if the exaception is made, the mentee goes to fill out the form again?
15:43:17 <pierros> (clarification:
15:43:26 <williamq> kinger: no
15:43:32 <pierros> if exception needs to be made, the budget is filled by mentor
15:43:38 <pierros> (no other way techincally)
15:43:45 <williamq> oh shit
15:43:52 <williamq> *shoot
15:43:55 <pierros> (they are the ones that have the admin bit in bugzilla)
15:44:06 <williamq> sorry, i had misunderstood
15:44:21 <kinger> maybe form could have a code field, for override
15:44:22 <pierros> otherwise it will be a really complex thing in bugzilla
15:44:28 <kinger> mentor could give mentee code
15:44:39 <Lucy_> that gets complicated
15:44:42 <pierros> kinger, then they would use it all the time
15:44:44 <williamq> I thought the mentee would fill out the budget request, then submit, and if under 2 weeks, he would get an automatic message telling him to contact his mentor
15:44:45 <pierros> Lucy, +1
15:44:56 <kinger> pierros, a per event code ... once off
15:44:58 <williamq> then the mentor would have to chime in on a comment to say that an exception can be made
15:45:00 <pierros> williamq, nope, they need to be bounced off
15:45:07 <pierros> kinger, super dev complicated
15:45:14 <kinger> ok
15:45:25 <pierros> williamq, I suggest for efficiency we stick to:
15:45:54 <pierros> if a bug budget is filled (by mentor if exception or by mentee normally) then the bug needs to get approval or not
15:46:00 <Lucy_> maybe rather than locking the form it can do something else if they're past due?
15:46:20 <pierros> if we introduce a step for mentor's apporoval we make the procedure complicated
15:46:38 <williamq> but what if the mentor's approval is just a comment on the budget bug?
15:46:43 <williamq> just like for the "Welcome Pack" ?
15:47:07 <pierros> williamq, so many complications... on welcome packs this is true for ALL bugs
15:47:13 <williamq> if the mentor says "Yes, please review the bug" then we review it, if the mentor says "No, don't review it" then we WONTFIX it
15:47:16 <Lucy_> maybe it can add a keyword to the whiteboard tha tthe mentor has to clear to give approval
15:47:22 <pierros> in budget ones, how do you notify the mentor for the prob. ... etc?
15:47:28 <williamq> Lucy_: right
15:47:33 <williamq> the mentee notifies his mentor
15:47:46 <pierros> Lucy, which keyword we need to parse somehow and notify mentors...
15:47:51 <pierros> guys and gal
15:47:59 <Lucy_> I think we should always have the mentor take the first pass at budget and swag requests
15:48:04 <pierros> the WHOLE idea is to prevent people on filling requests off time
15:48:10 <williamq> we simply need to display a message at the bottom of the budget request form saying: IF YOU ARE UNDER THE STANDARD LEAD TIME, please contact your mentor so he can chime in on your bug
15:48:24 <pierros> on the weird extreme case that we need exception this needs to be bounced off by mentros
15:48:30 <pierros> not filled and THEN bounced off
15:48:47 <kinger> Can we auto cc mentor on bug based on who files it?
15:48:50 <pierros> williamq, how would they know? none will contact... they will just wait
15:49:09 <pierros> kinger, nope because the info lives on ReMo and not on bugzilla :(
15:49:31 <williamq> pierros: AGAIN, if we add a message at the bottom of the budget request form that expliciately says that the need to contact their mentors if they are requesting a budget under the standard lead time
15:49:39 <kinger> I suggest we move this topic to the list ... time is getting on
15:49:57 <williamq> ok
15:49:59 <kinger> (or to a bug)
15:50:00 <Lucy_> we can show mentors how to set up a watch so that they get the bugmail when their mentors file a request
15:50:03 <pierros> williamq, blocking people = effective. informing people = everyone will not read it
15:50:06 <Lucy_> or add it to the remopage
15:50:09 <pierros> (we seen this before)
15:50:41 <pierros> kinger, +1
15:50:51 <williamq> we'll take this offline tomorrow
15:50:54 <kinger> So next up is welcome packs ... Nikola brought this up and we agreed to act. What are the next steps?
15:50:54 <williamq> let's move on
15:51:22 <williamq> i suggest we update the SOP with Vineel's suggestion
15:51:39 <williamq> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=762607
15:51:39 <remobot> 04Bug 762607: is not accessible.
15:51:40 <kinger> #action pierros  to start discussion on new budget approval flow
15:51:54 <kinger> williamq : +1
15:52:24 <kinger> Did Vineel say he will do it or do we need a volunteer?
15:52:32 <williamq> I will do it
15:52:49 <kinger> #action williamq to update welcome pack SOP
15:52:52 <kinger> thanks
15:53:06 <kinger> Anybody want to discuss other SOPs?
15:53:10 <kinger> Lucy_ ?
15:53:21 <Lucy_> I think we're on top of things
15:53:28 <kinger> good good
15:53:33 <williamq> awesome
15:53:46 <kinger> I filed a bug on the mailing list SOP but have not got around to it. P1 for me now
15:54:04 <kinger> #action kinger to add mailing list SOP P1
15:54:12 <kinger> Ok moving on....
15:54:29 <kinger> #topic Bi-Weekly checklist
15:54:50 <kinger> budgets >500:  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=762548
15:54:50 <remobot> 04Bug 762548: is not accessible.
15:54:51 <kinger> --> Mitchell Baker has specifically expressed interest in inviting  Melek and Chit to this conference and then to the Mozilla Office after
15:55:01 <williamq> +1 for me
15:55:39 <pierros> +1 for me too
15:55:39 <williamq> this will be a great opportunity to have two star Reps at an important conference
15:55:44 <Lucy_> +1
15:55:44 <pierros> nice chance for both Reps :)
15:55:45 <Rami> me too +1
15:55:54 <Rami> yes lucky them hehe
15:55:58 <Lucy_> too bad the ticket is that much though
15:56:04 <williamq> and it will be a great opportunity to give exposure to the program considering Mitchell wants to invite them to meet her in San Francisco after
15:56:04 <Lucy_> where is she coming from?
15:56:16 <kinger> The issue of participation of more women has come up a lot recently, e.g. in the Balkans
15:56:19 <williamq> the budget is way above what i think it will end up costing
15:56:24 <williamq> i checked flights
15:56:40 <williamq> it will be about $2000 USD for Chit (from Myanmar) and $1000 USD for Melek
15:56:48 <williamq> and hotel is covered by Lukas
15:56:48 <Lucy_> williamq: maybe lukas checked the us site
15:56:51 <kinger> excellent
15:56:59 <Rami> Chit is doing amazing work
15:57:01 <Lucy_> seems it matters where you buy the tickets
15:57:09 <Rami> i checked the local community
15:57:09 <kinger> +1 from me
15:57:22 <williamq> if budget is approved, i'll make sure we go through our new travel agent
15:57:35 <kinger> the one based in the US?
15:57:46 <williamq> yes
15:58:02 <williamq> i'll tell them to purchase the cheap flights i found
15:58:07 <kinger> Ok any other budget requests to be looked at?
15:58:18 <Lucy_> speaking of voting, did the spreadsheet happen yet?
15:58:46 <kinger> Did anyone own it?
15:58:51 <Lucy_> pierros
15:59:05 <pierros> I did right? :S
15:59:09 <pierros> sorry no update on that
15:59:20 <pierros> #action pierros makes the spreadsheet for voting
15:59:26 <Lucy_> I can make it right now
15:59:26 <williamq> is there a bug for this?
15:59:35 <Lucy_> ha I don't think so ;)
16:00:02 <williamq> #action william to file bug for spreadsheet voting and assign to Pierros
16:00:18 <williamq> #action williamq to file bug for spreadsheet voting and assign to Pierros
16:01:14 <kinger> 16:00 UTC we are running good today
16:01:20 <kinger> Any other budget items?
16:01:27 <williamq> we've got an excellent chair :)
16:01:33 <williamq> i think we're good
16:01:36 <Lucy_> :)
16:01:47 <kinger> #topic Any Other Business
16:01:52 <kinger> floor open
16:02:13 <williamq> quick question:
16:02:41 <williamq> do you guys think it would be fun to organize an outing at the Berlin Technology Museum during the ReMo Camp?
16:02:50 <kinger> YES!
16:02:54 <Rami> YES
16:02:54 <Lucy_> ooh :)
16:03:07 <williamq> ok cool, i'll look into that
16:03:08 <Rami> \o/
16:03:29 <kinger> general related note...
16:03:29 <williamq> if you have any other ideas, I'm totally open to suggestions :)
16:03:41 <pierros> +100
16:03:57 <pierros> williamq, the naked sauna spa sounds like fun :P
16:04:09 <pierros> take our project to the next level :P
16:04:10 <Rami> lol
16:04:10 <williamq> pierros: yeah, that's already planned for Friday night
16:04:11 <pierros> (just kidding)
16:04:20 <Lucy_> need moar reps ;)
16:04:24 * williamq is not kidding :)
16:04:27 <kinger> We should try not to let social stuff to interfere with the schedule, like what happened it Athens. It worked out ok there, but with more people it might be harder to reign in time
16:04:39 <williamq> kinger: absolutely
16:04:49 <kinger> So what I am saying is that social should be well scheduled
16:04:56 <kinger> Still essential of course
16:04:57 <Lucy_> yeah we need to be careful like in paris and have a curfew
16:05:21 <Lucy_> it's unrealistic to expect people to start at 9 if we keep them out drinking to 1 or 2
16:05:21 <williamq> by the way, i *was* kidding about the spa
16:05:24 <kinger> Lucy_ I didn't mean the night stuff, but more during the day
16:05:33 <Lucy_> ah
16:05:46 <kinger> On the last day in Athens we started late becuase of an unscheduled trip
16:05:48 <kinger> Or moved
16:05:55 <Lucy_> yeah you guys started late every day
16:06:01 <kinger> :)
16:06:05 <williamq> kinger: totally garee that we'll need to be extra strict in terms of scheduling because we'll be 3 times the number we were at the work week
16:06:29 <kinger> But as Lucy referred to, what about nights?
16:06:40 <williamq> i think we need to go easy on nights
16:06:44 <kinger> At the Balkans event, Axel gave a lecture each evening about that :)
16:06:48 <williamq> Friday, we should go back to the hotel after dinner
16:07:05 <williamq> Saturday night, Tobi Leingruber is planning a chill Firefox Flicks party which should end at 11pm
16:07:11 <williamq> and Sunday night will be open
16:07:19 <kinger> sounds good
16:07:32 <Lucy_> yeah i don't fly til tues so we can go crazy sunday ;)
16:07:43 <williamq> :)
16:07:45 <kinger> me too
16:07:53 <pierros> we are working Monday, so dont go crazy williamq
16:07:56 <pierros> :P
16:08:00 <Rami> hehe
16:08:03 <Lucy_> williamq: it's ok I will write you a note
16:08:09 <williamq> :)
16:08:29 <williamq> pierros: i'm probably the Rep who will be going to bed the earliest
16:08:51 <kinger> williamq : thats what you think
16:09:04 <kinger> Ok I will close this meeting in a minute or two
16:09:06 <pierros> kinger, the family man
16:09:22 <Lucy_> do we have a doc for posting our arrival and departure times again?
16:09:28 <kinger> family man still knows how to have a good time
16:09:37 <williamq> we have a google doc
16:09:43 <williamq> i will share it
16:09:53 <Lucy_> ok, cuz you don't have my arrival ;)
16:09:58 <Rami> good idea
16:09:59 <kinger> #action #williamq to share g doc about event logistic times
16:10:17 <kinger> #undo
16:10:17 <remobot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x9440d4c>
16:10:25 <kinger> #action williamq to share g doc about event logistic times
16:10:43 <kinger> that is it folks
16:10:45 <kinger> going once
16:10:52 <kinger> going twice
16:11:08 <kinger> #endmeeting