15:10:03 <pierros> #startmeeting Council Meeting 2012-08-19
15:10:03 <remobot> Meeting started Sun Aug 19 15:10:03 2012 UTC.  The chair is pierros. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:10:03 <remobot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:10:10 <pierros> #chair Lucy
15:10:10 <remobot> Current chairs: Lucy pierros
15:10:15 <pierros> ok here we go!
15:10:20 <Lucy> whew!
15:10:37 <Lucy> Alright guys here it comes
15:10:51 <Lucy> #topic bi-weekly checklist: bugs
15:11:22 <Lucy> we have a handy wiki page pierros made and the Triage team has been marking bugs that need council's attention
15:11:30 <Lucy> https://wiki.mozilla.org/ReMo/Council/Bugs
15:11:44 <Lucy> I'll try and plow through them as fast as possible
15:12:23 <Lucy> Menthorship reshuffle: We haven't started on this one. At this point should we put it off til the new council?
15:12:40 <pierros> quite probably as new people will have more responsibilities
15:12:44 <pierros> and we have to take this into account
15:12:48 <williamq> yes, I agree
15:13:02 <deimidis> +1
15:13:33 <Lucy> alright I"ll mark the bug as such, if anyone has objections later bring it up on list!
15:14:13 <Lucy> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=775413 is an SOP change that needs our approval
15:14:13 <remobot> 04Bug 775413: critical, --, ---, gpmeneses, ASSIGNED , Scenario E : the mentee does not answer anymore
15:15:12 <kinger> I notice a few typos
15:15:36 <Lucy> now that williamq is back, maybe he can review it and post to the list for us to review it?
15:16:01 <williamq> sure thing
15:16:02 <kinger> A note must be made for the mentor to roll back steps that they may have done, e.g. set up a profile
15:16:20 <williamq> I'll follow up with this one
15:16:20 * kinger comments in the bug
15:16:32 <Lucy> ah yes! we can follow up on bug comments instead of on list
15:16:34 <Lucy> that is even better
15:17:21 <Lucy> Next is the community IT request checklist. I am also waiting for feedback
15:17:29 <Lucy> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=726635
15:17:29 <remobot> 04Bug 726635: critical, --, ---, majken, ASSIGNED , Community IT request checklist
15:18:56 <pierros> I should go through this
15:18:56 <kinger> anything specific you need feedback on here Lucy?
15:19:08 <Lucy> kinger: just to make sure the process sounds right to everyone
15:19:39 <Lucy> if it needs more drafts or if I can mark it fixed
15:20:01 <kinger> I think it could use another pass
15:20:11 <kinger> pierros volunteered :)
15:20:14 <Lucy> :D
15:20:52 <Lucy> ok will keep pushing through, hopefully just reviewing will get the action they need
15:21:00 <Lucy> new council can wait, it has a section on the agenda
15:21:17 <Lucy> Add old votes to spreadsheet - this hasn't happened yet.
15:21:33 <Lucy> maybe a team wants to get together online at some point and dig through the emails together?
15:21:44 <Lucy> skype is fun for these kinds of things :)
15:23:26 * kinger wonders why old votes even need to go on there
15:23:39 * pierros shares kinger's wonder
15:23:41 <Lucy> kinger: for a record, so we know what we voted on and who voted
15:24:01 <Lucy> we could leave off things like voting on bugs
15:24:04 <williamq> this is going to be a long and tedious task, but I agree that for the sake of transparency we need to do this
15:24:36 <deimidis> sorry, where's is the agenda of today meeting?
15:24:48 <Lucy> https://remo.etherpad.mozilla.org/council-meeting-20120819
15:25:01 <deimidis> Lucy, thanks
15:25:06 <Lucy> deimidis: np :)
15:25:13 <Lucy> williamq: I guess we're volunteering to do it? ;)
15:25:19 <williamq> :)
15:25:25 <williamq> yep
15:25:42 <Lucy> alright, I will assign it to me since I have fewer bugs!
15:25:45 <kinger> I'll help
15:26:28 <Lucy> ok!
15:27:17 <Lucy> Bug 777100 needs a read as well
15:27:17 <remobot> 04Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=777100 major, --, ---, franc, ASSIGNED , draft template for violation of mailing list policy
15:29:37 <Lucy> I like the language of the first one better, but the description of what the list is for needs to be a bit more spelled out
15:30:19 <kinger> What happens after 3rd strike, they fall into a communication black hole? Theoritcally they will still be Reps
15:30:53 <pierros> kinger, true.. but the point is to never reach this point right?
15:31:03 <kinger> right
15:31:15 <Lucy> I think we did discuss this at the camp
15:31:19 <Lucy> but I don't recall where we went with it
15:31:52 <kinger> perhaps they can subscribe again after a cool-off period
15:32:07 <deimidis> is there a way to receive mails, but not write in mailman?
15:32:14 <williamq> I think we said that after the 3rd strike, we prevent them from posting
15:32:14 <williamq> yes
15:32:32 <deimidis> williamq, I remember the same
15:32:50 <williamq> I believe we can adjust their rights so that can post but only with approval from an admin
15:32:55 <deimidis> a cool-off period of just read
15:33:02 <williamq> yes
15:33:40 <kinger> sounds good
15:33:51 <vineel> +1
15:33:53 <Lucy> to keep moving, keep discussing this on the bug or in the appropriate mailing list. I'm leaving a bunch of tabs open for after the meeting!
15:34:28 <Lucy> the next one is https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772913
15:34:28 <remobot> 04Bug 772913: major, --, ---, fuzzyfox0, ASSIGNED , [SOP] Update Budget Approval SOP to include mentor screening
15:34:45 <Lucy> and we really should apply this to SWAG as well
15:35:05 <pierros> Lucy, for swag we dont really need it
15:36:04 <Lucy> I think it would still be good as mentors to take a first pass. Also to make sure the swag and budget bugs are related.
15:36:37 <Lucy> but we haven't really discussed it before
15:36:49 <pierros> for swag this would create an overload
15:37:02 <pierros> the point for budget was that it is much more delicate as a subject
15:37:17 <pierros> and also needs mentor help to compile a good and reasonable request
15:37:46 <Lucy> well let's focus on the budget changes and I'll bring the swag suggestion up on list
15:37:53 <williamq> I agree with PIerros, this is going to be too much overhead
15:37:57 <williamq> ok
15:38:56 <Lucy> so attached to this proposal is my request for bug flags, so that would make some slight changes. We'd use flags instead of whiteboard.
15:40:12 <kinger> for getting peoples attention in BZ, flags are better
15:40:50 <Lucy> it's also much easier for tracking the bugs since flags are a switch, don't have to worry about using the same term in the whiteboard on every bug
15:41:15 <williamq> makes sense
15:41:23 <Lucy> so I think fuzzy's proposed changes cover what we agreed
15:43:02 <Lucy> and we can discuss the flags later or on list.
15:43:13 <williamq> ok
15:43:15 <Lucy> the next bug is about mozfest and we're discussing that later so we'll skip
15:43:56 <Lucy> williamq: you marked https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773620 major
15:43:56 <remobot> 04Bug 773620: major, --, ---, guillermo.movia, ASSIGNED , Research about mentoring tools and plan training for mentors
15:44:18 <Lucy> do we need to do anything with it now?
15:44:26 * pierros as the timekeeper notes that we still have 20 mins left
15:44:30 <williamq> hmmm, i think Majda marked it major
15:44:43 <Lucy> williamq: it's under you, when it was marked assigned
15:44:53 <deimidis> Lucy, i will update it
15:44:58 <Lucy> alright!
15:45:04 <williamq> oh you're right :(
15:45:09 <williamq> hmmm not sure how that happened
15:45:21 <williamq> i don't think we need to do anything with it now
15:45:27 <williamq> this does not seem to be major
15:45:36 <Lucy> maybe you were hoping to get it going much sooner
15:45:49 <Lucy> ok next one is about creating the alias for interpersonal conflicts
15:46:06 <Lucy> this will need discussion on the list as well, we have to figure out what's up with conductors etc.
15:46:52 <williamq> I think the conductors program is pretty much stalled
15:47:00 <kinger> yes
15:47:24 <Lucy> I think it would be great to revive it and organize it as a formal group
15:47:32 <vineel> then we need to look for ReMo specific conductors ?
15:48:15 <williamq> I see members of the ReMO council as conductors
15:48:28 <pierros> true
15:48:45 <Lucy> though someone rightly raised the issue that it could be council that people have an issue with
15:49:17 <williamq> right
15:49:23 <vineel> yes
15:49:26 <Lucy> so ideally we don't have these many bugs usually to go through and so we can actualy resolve them in meeting
15:49:36 <Lucy> but we have to move this all to the list unless something needed to be done yesterday
15:49:37 <Lucy> we're almost done!
15:49:53 <Lucy> the events SOP was marked major before we started using this system so skip it
15:49:59 <williamq> ok
15:50:05 <Lucy> investigating brand change is a good one though
15:50:13 <Lucy> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=777120
15:50:13 <remobot> 04Bug 777120: major, --, ---, pierros, ASSIGNED , investigate branding change - changes to polo shirt + logo change
15:51:01 <Lucy> it is marked major as there are a few other things waiting for it. Like making materials to advertise reps
15:51:37 <Lucy> though at this point it might tie in better with new council
15:52:09 <kinger> true, but if we need it, I think it should have priority
15:52:24 <pierros> Lucy, new council would review it
15:52:50 <kinger> On a related note, williamq any news on the swag supplier switch and how long current shortages will last?
15:53:13 <williamq> we have enough stock to last till the end of the year, before switching to the supplier
15:53:44 <kinger> I've noticed stocks of t-shirts are out in some orders, for example
15:53:54 <williamq> we've just replenished our stock of tshirts last week
15:54:01 <kinger> ok cool
15:54:05 <kinger> temp issues
15:54:08 <williamq> we have 500 new tshirts being shipped in this week
15:54:21 <williamq> so i think we're good on the swag front
15:54:50 <vineel> one point on budget requests..
15:55:29 <vineel> we are getting budget request for informal events, like mozcafe and hosting sprint..
15:55:49 <Lucy> #action Discuss unresolved critical/major bugs on list ASAP
15:56:25 <vineel> i am not sure if Mozilla should support such informal events by reps.. what do you think?
15:57:12 <Lucy> it does seem like for casual events swag is what would be needed
15:57:20 <vineel> yes..
15:58:06 <vineel> we need to make it clear on the sop's, though it can be reviewed case by case
15:58:27 <Lucy> yes, we also should get the budget taskforce going!
15:58:28 <williamq> vineel: do you mean that we should not fund small casual events like mozcaf├ęs?
15:58:37 <kinger> well, what about refreshments?
15:59:35 <vineel> we may, but let's not encourage them directly, reps may first look for some local support or pool in money.
15:59:40 <Lucy> I think it depends on what happens at the event
15:59:42 <vineel> but not mention on SOP's
15:59:55 <williamq> i see
16:00:12 <williamq> or maybe we should help co-fund
16:00:32 <williamq> that way it encourages Reps to find other sponsors
16:00:38 * pierros as the timekeepers note that we have less than 10mins left
16:00:43 <Lucy> or if they're just getting together pay for it themselves
16:00:51 <vineel> i see something happening like in the future, where "some" reps say, lets meet for lunch, lets make a budget request
16:01:06 <williamq> vineel: sure, and i'm sure it's happened in the past
16:01:14 <kinger> good idea about seeking local support first, e.g. in Cluj, Romania, the local Starbucks provides free drinks
16:01:31 <Lucy> we'll have to continue this on list
16:01:50 <williamq> that said, I think that getting mozillians to meet and just hang out together is not necessarily a bad thing
16:01:51 <Lucy> next bug is council voting. That is marked major as there hasn't been any action on it for a while
16:02:07 <deimidis> williamq, +1
16:02:10 <williamq> it's good to strengthen bonds between mozillians
16:02:18 <vineel> right
16:02:24 <williamq> but i see your point
16:02:37 <williamq> i suggest the budget task force meets to discuss this further
16:03:01 <williamq> #action williamq to set up a budget task force meeting to review funding policy for different types of events
16:03:15 <Lucy> vineel: are you still working on the council voting SOP or do you need to hand it off?
16:03:38 <vineel> its ready
16:03:47 <deimidis> williamq, could I add another item to budget task force ? New ways/tools to send money :)
16:03:56 <williamq> deimidis: yes :)
16:04:26 <Lucy> vineel: great! I'll leave you to update the bug later
16:04:41 <Lucy> so the last two bugs are resolved so I will clean up the status later
16:04:43 <williamq> #idea find new ways to send money (paypal, WU, not ideal in many cases)
16:04:45 <vineel> Lucy: ok
16:04:52 <williamq> ok cool
16:05:24 <Lucy> I will bring up the flags on list, but we need to figure out which flags we want on which components. Link to the etherpad is in the agenda.
16:05:27 <Lucy> but we'll move on
16:05:53 <Lucy> pierros: is there a webdev update or should we go straight to new council?
16:06:44 <pierros> Lucy, I will send out an email on the list
16:06:49 <Lucy> ok
16:06:50 <pierros> please move on as we are out of time
16:06:54 <Lucy> #topic New Council
16:07:18 <Lucy> We are supposed to send out invites today for those who qualify to be on council
16:07:35 <pierros> we upadted the google doc so we should be good to go
16:07:41 <Lucy> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjP10TPY52n_dEVKM0RuQ19uaVRIeXlfeWY3ZnJObGc&pli=1#gid=0
16:08:21 <Lucy> ok does anyone have any objections to the results on the spreadsheet?
16:08:49 <Lucy> Accepted means the mentor has accepted their invitation to be nominated
16:09:09 <kinger> Nominated = self-nominated?
16:09:12 <Lucy> so if they have not been nominated that field doesn't apply
16:09:21 <Lucy> nominated means we have invited them to run for council
16:09:31 <Lucy> accepted means they have accepted the invitation and will be in the draw
16:09:34 <kinger> do we need to reach out to those who qualify but are not nominated?
16:09:53 <kinger> oh
16:09:59 <Lucy> kinger: if they qualify then we should put Yes under that column :)
16:10:07 <kinger> I'm looking at fuzzyfox for example, no nomination
16:10:34 <Lucy> kinger: well that's what we're finishing today
16:10:37 <Lucy> no one filled in that field
16:11:11 <williamq> ok for example FuzzyFux should be "Yes" in nominated
16:11:15 <Lucy> if we discuss anyone here we need to make sure it doesn't go into the logs
16:11:24 <Lucy> and I see there is a maybe
16:11:24 <williamq> and if he refuses to run, he should be "No" in the Aceepted column, right?
16:11:31 <Lucy> I think that maybe should be a yes
16:11:32 <Lucy> right
16:11:35 <deimidis> accepted is not when they accepted?
16:12:16 <Lucy> think of accepted as a short form of "Do you accept being nominated for council?"
16:12:36 <williamq> ok
16:13:03 <williamq> does anyone think "Maybe" should be considerd a "No" ?
16:13:19 <Lucy> tehre is only one maybe on there, and in my experience it should be a yes
16:13:30 <deimidis> Lucy, +1
16:13:33 <Lucy> but I have less experience with that person
16:13:54 <kinger> I just asked fuzzy and he accepts
16:13:54 <Lucy> (careful not to say name or gender for the log!)
16:14:10 <pierros> Lucy, lol
16:14:13 <Lucy> kinger: first we confirm the nominations
16:14:16 <deimidis> Lucy, I think is has to be Yes. I think is most probably Yes responsability than availability
16:14:17 <pierros> maybe should be no I think
16:14:18 <Lucy> then we'll send them an email
16:14:47 <Lucy> pierros: in general? or you think that maybe in particular should be a no?
16:16:23 <Lucy> argh ok, let me explain the spreadsheet one more time
16:16:43 <Lucy> first we have the criteria - Yes means they meet it, No means they don't, Maybe means we should discuss it
16:16:57 <Lucy> So if you see any yeses or nos you disagree with change it to maybe
16:17:40 <Lucy> Then if someone meets the critera, they are Nominated (like nominated for an award) and that field is marked yes. If they have any Nos in the mandatory columns then Nominated is NO, they will not be invited to run for council
16:18:17 <Lucy> Then the people with a Yes under nominated we send them an email asking them if they want to run for council
16:18:25 <Lucy> If the accept then we put Yes under "accepted"
16:18:36 <Lucy> someone has filled in a lot of "Accepted"
16:19:06 <Lucy> The Nos taht were already under "Accepted" were people who said in advance they didn't want to run for council
16:19:52 <Lucy> we also agreed not to evaluate council, so those should all still be blank
16:20:04 <deimidis> Lucy, and current council members have a Yes in accepted by default
16:20:06 <williamq> I added those "Accepted" assuming those people wanted to run for council
16:20:18 <williamq> deimidis: yes
16:20:20 <Lucy> no, they have a yes in "nominated"
16:20:26 <Lucy> not all of us want to run
16:20:31 <williamq> oh, sorry then
16:20:40 <Lucy> we are supposed to fill in yes or no if we have decided to run
16:20:48 <williamq> i thought that those who didn't want to run from the council had already updated the doc with "No"
16:20:52 <williamq> like Deimidis for example
16:21:12 <Lucy> williamq: it's ok, you were on vacation :)
16:21:15 <deimidis> williamq, that's true, I don't want to run this time
16:21:36 <williamq> :)
16:21:52 <Lucy> ok so back to the maybe, does anyone think THAT maybe should be a no?
16:22:30 <kinger> No, it is a maybe that needs a final answet
16:23:02 <Lucy> lol this had degraded quickly
16:23:12 <williamq> haha
16:23:16 <Lucy> I will call it D8
16:23:20 <deimidis> I say that maybe has to be yes
16:23:21 <kinger> huh?
16:23:24 <Lucy> Should D8 be a yes or a no?
16:23:42 <williamq> i say "Yes"
16:23:44 <deimidis> D8 == Yes
16:23:45 <Lucy> deimidis and I have already said yes
16:24:08 <kinger> D8 = yes for me
16:24:13 <vineel> yes
16:24:47 <Lucy> ok!
16:25:07 * williamq will have to log off in 6 minutes (unfortunately) :(
16:25:14 <Lucy> darn :(
16:25:26 <Lucy> we will have to meet with fuzzy asap to cover mozcamp
16:25:31 <williamq> yes
16:25:31 <Lucy> err fest
16:25:32 <Lucy> not camp
16:25:37 <williamq> absolutely
16:25:41 <williamq> i'll be online later tonight
16:26:15 <kinger> lets switch topic now
16:26:17 <Lucy> ok does anyone disagree with any of the fields on the spreadsheet?
16:26:32 <Lucy> last call as I"ll be sending out invites today
16:26:39 <williamq> one question:
16:26:52 <kinger> Hey FuzzyFox
16:26:54 <williamq> why are all the fields for counci lmember swhite now?
16:26:57 <FuzzyFox> hey guys
16:27:05 <Lucy> williamq: because we agreed we wouldn't evaluate each other
16:27:17 <Lucy> we are on the honour system to not accept nomination if we think we don't meet the criteria
16:27:18 <williamq> oh, ok
16:28:14 <williamq> so who of the council is interested in running this time?
16:28:33 <Lucy> I am on the yes side of the fence
16:28:40 * FuzzyFox should come back in a minute while people talk about nominations still?
16:28:47 <kinger> yes pls
16:28:53 <Lucy> actually we should move on
16:29:07 <Lucy> council still has this week to decide if they're running
16:29:11 <kinger> I'm on the fence, need a couple more days to decide
16:29:11 <williamq> ok
16:29:28 <Lucy> actually we all have until the draw to accept or decline
16:29:34 <williamq> Lucy: you'll be reaching out to all those who have been nominated, correct?
16:29:38 <Lucy> williamq: yes
16:29:41 <Lucy> was just going to make the action
16:29:44 <williamq> Lucy: great
16:29:48 <kinger> excellent work on this Lucy
16:29:59 <williamq> indeed, well done!!
16:30:02 <Lucy> #action Lucy to email council nominees
16:30:09 <Lucy> thanks :) this kind of stuff is my wheelhouse
16:30:30 <deimidis> Lucy, great job!
16:30:41 <Lucy> ok so we still had moz festival on the menu
16:30:54 <Lucy> let's invite fuzzy in and figure out when we'll meet with him?
16:31:11 <Lucy> #topic Mozilla Festival
16:31:21 <Lucy> hi FuzzyFox, we might have to just schedule a meeting
16:31:27 <Lucy> can anyone stay?
16:31:35 <kinger> I can for a bit
16:31:47 <FuzzyFox> its fine for me
16:31:53 <kinger> Although I think williamq and pierros need to be brought up to date on this
16:32:14 <FuzzyFox> it should also be fine for you to just read the doc, and tell me what isn't okay...
16:32:18 <kinger> another meeting early yhis week?
16:32:23 <FuzzyFox> need to open registration asap so.
16:32:32 <Lucy> FuzzyFox: yes exactly
16:32:37 <Lucy> so we should meet
16:32:57 <FuzzyFox> monday or tuesday hopefully then....
16:33:02 <williamq> I'm going to read the doc a bit later today
16:33:10 <williamq> can you give me the password for the doc?
16:33:15 <FuzzyFox> pad: https://festival.etherpad.mozilla.org/remo-overview pass: licuoncomer
16:33:15 <Lucy> FuzzyFox: maybe you and williamq should set the meeting and those of us that can make it will join?
16:33:22 <williamq> can we meet tomorrow?
16:33:22 <FuzzyFox> sure thing
16:33:27 <FuzzyFox> williamq: sure
16:33:37 <vineel> sure
16:33:41 <FuzzyFox> skype... 3pm utc?
16:33:41 <williamq> great
16:33:50 <williamq> sure, i can do that
16:33:52 <vineel> sounds good
16:33:54 <kinger> +1
16:34:07 <Lucy> #action meet on skype with FuzzyFox at 3pm UTC to discuss Festival
16:34:13 <Lucy> lol
16:34:20 <Lucy> #action ... Monday the 20th
16:34:25 <williamq> I get an "incorrect password" :(
16:34:32 <FuzzyFox> excellent wilone sec
16:34:35 <Lucy> the n is in the wrong spot
16:34:41 <Lucy> licnuo...
16:34:54 <FuzzyFox> ah yes :P
16:35:05 <williamq> ok got it
16:35:05 <Lucy> cuz I read it as "lic new comer"
16:35:05 <williamq> :)
16:35:16 <FuzzyFox> licnuocomer
16:35:17 <williamq> hmmm, that doesn't sound good ;)
16:35:27 <kinger> sounds good
16:35:30 <kinger> :0
16:35:30 <williamq> ok cool
16:35:37 <williamq> gotta run - thanks all!!!
16:35:41 <Lucy> ok!
16:35:41 <FuzzyFox> remocouncil backwards :P
16:35:43 <kinger> ciao
16:35:44 <williamq> really happy to be back
16:35:45 <Lucy> oh lol
16:35:45 <FuzzyFox> cya
16:35:51 <Lucy> #endmeeting