15:02:17 <melek> #startmeeting
15:02:17 <remobot> Meeting started Sun Jun  9 15:02:17 2013 UTC.  The chair is melek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:02:17 <remobot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:02:25 <melek> so hi everyone
15:02:30 <melek> our first topic for today
15:02:38 <melek> is about the task forces and
15:02:49 <melek> the cool work that regnard is doing
15:02:55 <melek> #topic task forces: updates
15:03:08 <melek> regnard what do you have to say about that ?? :)
15:03:12 <regnard> yes
15:03:25 <regnard> so there are three main task force activities happening now
15:03:35 <regnard> first is the Safari Books Online team
15:03:40 <regnard> I announced that last week
15:03:52 <regnard> Lulu Castillo and Komal Gandhi are leading that tean
15:04:08 <regnard> we're set to deploy 60 safari books accounts in the next couple of weeks
15:04:27 <regnard> we're coordinating with Dino Anderson of the People group
15:04:40 * williamq finds this sooo cool!
15:04:45 <regnard> the next is the Diversity Team, which just recruitment just ended last week
15:04:47 <melek> +1
15:04:55 <regnard> (also with Training & Development)
15:05:09 <pierros> !
15:05:19 <regnard> this team will join the Community Council on Diversity, which is led by Debbie Cohen
15:05:28 <regnard> yes, pierros?
15:05:31 <melek> pierros:
15:05:46 <pierros> With so many resources available to Reps right now, I think we should take this into consideration on the wiki restructuring
15:06:04 <Debloper> +1
15:06:06 <Izel> +1
15:06:07 <pierros> so that all those resources are displayed correctly and advertised to the new commers
15:06:13 <williamq> +1
15:06:16 <pierros> (I am almost loosing count myself)
15:06:17 <pierros> eom
15:06:29 <regnard> do we know where in the wiki it will appear?
15:06:46 <Debloper> !
15:06:50 <pierros> I would suspect to have two main sections on the wiki moving fwd
15:06:52 <regnard> What I would be able to do ask the teams to update their respective sections on the wiki, if it exists
15:06:53 <pierros> SOPs and Resources
15:07:05 <pierros> !
15:07:06 <melek> debloper
15:07:17 <Debloper> If it's not too much to ask from the web-dev team, can we have most of the SoPs in the reps' portal?
15:07:37 <melek> pierros:
15:07:37 <Debloper> wiki for the project definition etc. and drafting the base (may be explaingin too) is good.
15:07:50 <Debloper> but I think it makes sense to consolidate them in reps' portal
15:07:51 <williamq> +1
15:07:51 <Debloper> epm
15:07:52 <Debloper> *eom
15:07:55 <pierros> two things:
15:08:26 <pierros> 1. on what Regnard said, I think that before we ask teams to update their parts there needs to be a highlevel resturucturing and cleanup
15:08:59 <pierros> 2. on Deb's proposal, SOPs are highly wiki-type of content in terms of editability, so,
15:09:33 <pierros> because portal is not ready to facilitate such a functionality we cannot do that for now. My suggestion would be to raise this to williamr|out as a possible future direction
15:09:35 <pierros> eom
15:09:41 <melek> pierros: we planned this cleanup in the last meeting! we definetly need to start it now!!
15:09:49 <pierros> !
15:09:52 <melek> pierros:
15:10:03 <ioanachiorean> +1 melek
15:10:13 <pierros> do we have an owner? If not I can step in as I am most familiar with our wiki structure
15:10:13 <pierros> eom
15:10:22 <melek> If I'm not wrong
15:10:29 <melek> it was william Q and Ioana
15:10:39 <melek> and we was searching for
15:10:42 <melek> the third person
15:10:43 * pierros says that will follow up with them
15:11:01 <melek> we thought it would be great
15:11:03 <melek> to include the mentors
15:11:06 <melek> in this task
15:11:14 <Izel> +1 melek
15:11:15 <melek> and have a group to work on this!
15:11:26 <ioanachiorean> +1
15:11:33 * williamq apologizes for being slow on this
15:11:33 <Debloper> as in docs-task-force?
15:11:52 <melek> Debloper: yeah why not!!
15:12:00 <Debloper> +1, of course!
15:12:02 <melek> it's okey williamq :)
15:12:09 <williamq> !
15:12:14 <melek> williamq
15:12:24 <williamq> 2 quick points:
15:12:51 <williamq> 1) the wiki cleanup should start with a meeting with all those involved this week
15:13:02 <williamq> so we can first all agree on how we restructure
15:13:15 <williamq> I suggest ioana sets up the meeting
15:13:35 <williamq> 2) regarding task forces in general, I think we need to
15:13:51 <williamq> do a general audit and refresh of all the task forces
15:14:16 <williamq> for example, a few people have shown interest in the web dev task force but it seems inactive
15:14:28 <williamq> same for social media etc
15:14:30 <williamq> eom
15:14:33 <regnard> !
15:14:40 <melek> reganrd
15:14:52 <regnard> just a comment on task forces
15:15:10 <regnard> i think task forces are a good way to create a pool of people interested on an area
15:15:25 <Debloper> !
15:15:46 <regnard> but I think the model I've used (ie, creating subteams with focused tasks) is excellent for action and meaningful contribution from the Reps
15:15:52 <regnard> eom
15:15:58 <regnard> oops,
15:15:58 <melek> Debloper
15:16:22 <williamq> +1 regnard
15:16:29 <Debloper> I think I have an idea to separate the SIGs & TFs. SIGs being the pool of interested people & TFs being the ones "responsible" for executing the tasks (people to count on).
15:16:31 <regnard> sorry, one more thing: do we have an action item for this? It would be great to move along the agenda as I think mrz's issue is also HUGE
15:16:42 <pierros> Debloper: +1
15:17:04 <melek> +1 deb too
15:17:06 <Debloper> as in, SIGs being the standing resource, a subset, TF who are at that instance carry out the tasks.
15:17:07 <Debloper> eom
15:17:20 <melek> okey so to resume
15:17:23 <ioanachiorean> 1
15:17:33 <ioanachiorean> +1 for regnard
15:17:38 * Debloper wonders, if it's well-in-the-morning for mrz to take part in next agenda (org-emails) - or should we push this towards the end?
15:17:40 <melek> we can first start with the wiki cleanup
15:17:46 <melek> it's really urgent!!
15:18:18 <melek> so #action ioanachiorean email pierros and william to fix a meeting so you can talk about the "how" and who will be involved in this
15:18:32 <regnard> !
15:18:36 * williamq suggests we ask mrz when he wants to discuss emails
15:18:40 <mrz> Debloper: it's only 8:18a.  i have two kids and 8a is "late" :)
15:18:44 <melek> regnard
15:19:00 <regnard> yeah, just wanted to cleanly wrap-up my portion of the agenda
15:19:14 <regnard> the final TF activity is the Comms Task Force
15:19:33 <melek> okey so quickly please so we can move to mrz and we will be back for the task forces!
15:19:42 <regnard> recruitment just finished, and a sub team for Firefox Flicks will be activated
15:19:48 <regnard> and that's it!
15:19:50 <regnard> :D
15:19:53 <melek> :) thanks :D
15:20:07 <melek> okey we will be back to this topic!!
15:20:15 <melek> next topic the mozilla emails!!
15:20:22 <melek> #mozilla.org emails and reps
15:20:24 <melek> oups
15:20:27 <Debloper> :P
15:20:33 <melek> #topic mozilla.org emails and reps
15:20:41 <melek> mrz to you :)
15:20:41 <mrz> do you need the background for the topic?
15:20:51 <melek> yeah :)
15:21:06 <mrz> i tossed out a question to mozilla-reps on what tools they would need to be more effective
15:21:19 <mrz> and one of the biggest resposnes was around a mozilla branded email addr
15:21:43 <mrz> started working through that
15:21:49 <mrz> with a commnuity IT SIG
15:22:07 <mrz> and there isn't currently any policy for @mozilla.org.  what's there is historical
15:22:10 <mrz> no process to get on or off.
15:22:27 <mrz> the thinking was that @mozilla.com & @mozillafoundation.org would remain for paid staff
15:22:35 <mrz> all paid-staff + reps (?) woudl be @mozilla.org
15:22:51 <mrz> and reps would have some process to allow other contributors to have an @mozilla.org
15:22:57 <Debloper> !
15:23:02 <mrz> the use case is for instances where others are speaking as Mozilla
15:23:32 <mrz> i added the summar to line 56 on the etherpad
15:24:10 <melek> thanks :)
15:24:23 <melek> any other input mrz ?
15:24:26 <mrz> so that's the background.  my question to the council was first, does it make sense?  do you have a process to vet people?
15:24:30 <mrz> is this a good path?
15:24:45 <williamq> !
15:24:46 <regnard> !
15:24:47 <mrz> Reps, as best as I know, as as close to paid staff as you can be.
15:24:49 <Izel> !
15:24:59 <mrz> and in may ways you are "speaking for Mozilla"
15:25:22 <mrz> my intent is to draft a policy that i can then take to governance
15:25:57 <melek> OKey so let's hear your thoughts :)
15:25:59 <melek> Debloper
15:26:25 <Debloper> 1. There's a bug on this to work on - may council alias be CC'd to that, if that makes sense: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=705299
15:26:27 <remobot> Bug 705299: major, --, ---, mrz, ASSIGNED , Provide Mozilla emails to the active volunteers
15:26:29 <Debloper> 2. williamr should be pinged on the possibility to expand mozillians to allow multiple vouching or special reviewed group creation, where it can be rather easy to nominate/manage people for special privileges (from L1/L3 access to org emails, as e.g.)
15:26:52 <Debloper> eom.
15:26:57 <melek> williamq
15:27:02 <regnard> !
15:27:04 <Debloper> (unless it requires further explanation)
15:27:26 <melek> it perfectly clear I think :)
15:27:44 <melek> williamq
15:27:51 <williamq> I was initially supportive of having all reps get a @mozilla.org email but now, I think we need to create a fairly rigorous process for reps to obtain one, I don't think they should get one be default
15:28:08 <Debloper> +1
15:28:13 <Izel> +1
15:28:22 <williamq> so I would be supportive of a rigorous vetting process by mentors before giving an email to a rep
15:28:24 <williamq> Eom
15:28:36 <melek> regnard
15:29:28 * Debloper votes for need-based allowance system, than status-based.
15:29:30 <regnard> Re: policy, I think the vetting process in Reps application should be enough for Reps to get a mozilla.org email
15:29:47 <Debloper> !
15:30:02 <regnard> Re: williamq's point, do we need to create a separate vetting process for the emails?
15:30:04 <Izel> !
15:30:10 <melek> Izel
15:30:13 <regnard> I think it gives us the motivation to
15:30:22 <regnard> create a stricter application SOP then
15:30:23 <williamq> regnard: I would be in favour of an additional one
15:30:27 <williamq> eom
15:30:32 <Izel> could we start this process with mentors maybe.  What williamq says has sense
15:30:49 <regnard> i also think baking in the non-Rep vetting is the more complex issue
15:31:02 <regnard> eom
15:31:02 <mrz> what's missing from your current Reps vetting process that this new process would add?
15:31:33 <mrz> regnard: i think it becomes easier if you can better define "active contibutor".
15:31:57 <melek> Debloper
15:32:00 <Debloper> if it has to be easy for the reps, then at least reps should get the email after (s)he's Accepted (RESOLVED/FIXED) & not while in probation/orientation (this might even add some more sense to the orientation period & the mentors duty in that time).
15:32:01 <regnard> mrz: good point
15:32:29 <Debloper> +1 on mrz's "active contributor" definition
15:32:34 <melek> okey so let resume :D
15:32:35 <Debloper> eom.
15:32:45 <mrz> i'm unclear what the process is to remove old or inactive addreses.
15:32:53 <williamq> mrz: I think we have reps who are doing fantastic work as reps but still don't have enough experience or knowledge of the program to have an official email address
15:33:07 <regnard> !
15:33:08 <melek> +1 williamq
15:33:13 <Izel> +1 william
15:33:17 <melek> regnard
15:33:19 <williamq> so I think they are for to be reps, but just not entirely ready
15:33:29 <williamq> *fit
15:33:32 <williamq> eom
15:33:46 <Izel> !
15:33:49 <regnard> how about making it an opt-in benefit
15:33:55 <mrz> williamq: makes sense.  i'm delegating the policy to you for sure.  I can continue to work on the general email doc.
15:33:56 <regnard> ie, make it like a budget request
15:34:06 <regnard> then have the normal review procedure
15:34:11 <regnard> at least we're used to it
15:34:13 <mrz> https://intranet.mozilla.org/User:Mzeier@mozilla.com/MozEmail#Summary is internal at the moment but some of you can read it.
15:34:16 <regnard> not really a new process
15:34:18 <regnard> eom
15:34:20 <Izel> -!
15:34:27 <melek> Izel
15:34:52 <Izel> regnard said what i was thinking
15:35:18 <melek> I think some thing like the keon phone process can be interesting too
15:35:28 <pierros> melek: +1
15:35:41 <melek> so do all of you agree to give the mentors + councils an @mozilla.org email
15:35:55 <melek> for the reps: we have a establish a review process ?
15:36:06 * pierros reminds all that if we deploy resources in a nice way many things can go through an semi-automated and streamlined approval process
15:36:07 <Izel> !
15:36:26 <melek> Izel
15:36:47 <Debloper> !
15:36:51 <mrz> +1 for nice way.  i'm ignoring implementation details for now, assuming it'll be automated.  the techincal part is easier than writing this policy
15:36:53 <Izel> Council and mentors by default because we are sure about their contribution
15:37:09 <Izel> eom
15:37:10 <regnard> +1
15:37:13 <melek> Debloper :
15:37:18 <williamq> +1 Izel
15:37:51 <Debloper> I think mrz is trying to look beyond the reps' only. Where our discussion may be enclosed how the reps can participate, but can we also think about the non-reps & shoul dwe leave that to mrz/CommunityIT?
15:37:58 <Debloper> eom.
15:38:18 <ioanachiorean> +1
15:38:25 <williamq> !
15:38:28 <melek> euhm it's easy to track for the reps I don't know for the non reps!!
15:38:32 <melek> williamq
15:38:41 <mrz> Debloper: i believe Reps/Council is best suited to tell me who  gets the address.  much like the website hosting process.
15:38:54 <Debloper> !
15:39:07 <mrz> it sounds like there's agreement in some versino of this and i can continue drafting this policy and share.
15:39:20 <williamq> yes, as the council our focus should be on reps but we can also advise on what policy we should have for non reps
15:39:54 <regnard> !
15:40:07 <melek> Debloper
15:40:09 <Debloper> I think we can ask each to file a bug, and their project owners (for non-reps) can vouch for them, or ask them to take time & try later. (e.g. people who work extensively for SuMo but aren't reps, & there are more examples)
15:40:13 <williamq> what is certain is that as soon as Mozillians find out that reps are getting Mozilla emails, this will create huge discussions and some frustration from non Reps who feel there is favoritism
15:40:16 <williamq> eom
15:40:32 <Debloper> for the reps' it's rather easy - as other swag/budget approval.
15:40:33 <Debloper> eom.
15:40:35 <melek> +1 williamq :s
15:40:55 <regnard> !
15:41:07 <melek> regnard
15:41:15 <regnard> as guidance, I'd like to circle back to mrz's point about "active contributors"
15:41:22 <regnard> i know there has been discussions in the past on this
15:41:37 <regnard> and it would be good to review it for the non-Rep access
15:41:49 <regnard> it would help clarify the policy
15:42:04 <melek> regnard where the discussions?!
15:42:13 <regnard> at least we're clear that this would be available to all Mozillians, and not just Reps
15:42:14 <regnard> hmmm
15:42:21 <regnard> I think that was in Community Builders?
15:42:27 <regnard> I could be wrong
15:42:39 <melek> okey will search for that!!
15:42:44 <regnard> if it got buried, then we may jumpstart it again, as part of the consultation process
15:42:45 <regnard> eom
15:43:05 <melek> still I think we need to fix the process for the reps to get an email before to attribute
15:43:09 <melek> emails to council and mentor!!
15:43:35 <mrz> sounds like there's an action to draft the Reps process to allow addresses?
15:43:47 <Debloper> !
15:43:51 <melek> Debloper
15:44:06 <Debloper> for the ones with community-emails, mrz - what's your plan/suggestion around that?
15:44:07 <melek> mrz : I think yes !!
15:44:26 <Debloper> migrate then ones who'll be getting @mozilla.org emails? or keep both?
15:44:27 <mrz> Debloper: regional addresses like mozilla-hispano.org ?
15:44:32 <Debloper> or alias somehow?
15:44:33 <Debloper> eom.
15:44:38 <Debloper> mrz: yeah.
15:44:44 <mrz> here's what I wrote: "Regional Communities will continue to set their own direction and policy with regards to adding email addresses for active Community members. "
15:44:58 <Debloper> ah, cool :)
15:45:08 <ioanachiorean> Yay
15:45:16 <regnard> +1
15:45:32 <melek> okey so !!
15:45:35 <mrz> what are the next steps?
15:45:44 <melek> +1 mrz :)
15:45:46 <Debloper> action-item addition.
15:45:47 * regnard thinks it would be too challenging to centralize community email management
15:46:21 <Debloper> challenging is interesting ;)
15:47:01 <melek> May be we can
15:47:02 <Debloper> melek: can you please add an action item - on william or, mrz (or, me if no one else).
15:47:11 <mrz> in what sense?  if mozillians.org has the ability to enable @mozilla.org, then the rest is techincally easy.
15:47:22 <Debloper> +1
15:47:42 * pierros reminds all about time :)
15:47:57 * williamq happy to draft first version of process of email attribution to reps
15:48:07 <melek> okey
15:48:28 <melek> #action williamq draft a first version for the email attribution process
15:48:43 <melek> mrz william will cc you when he will send
15:48:45 <melek> his email!!
15:49:05 <melek> we need to fix the reps attribution process and be clear on a procedure
15:49:21 <melek> when we have this we can work on the non reps email attribution
15:49:27 * williamq will work on this tomorrow and share with council and mrz
15:49:34 <melek> nice!!
15:49:56 <melek> okey so
15:50:06 <melek> let's move to our next topic !
15:50:09 <regnard> !
15:50:19 <melek> yep regnard
15:50:21 <regnard> i propose a 10 minute extension
15:50:27 <pierros> +1
15:50:34 <melek> yeah I think we need to !
15:50:35 * williamq thanks mrz for joining our meeting, on a Sunday no less :)
15:50:55 <melek> thanks mrz and hope we will have a clear procedure very soon :)
15:51:05 <mrz> thanks. williamq i'll connect with you later or next weekend in paris.
15:51:14 <Izel> Thanks mrz!! :)
15:51:33 <melek> #topic Rodrigo Padula case!
15:51:58 <melek> any one want to add something about rodrigo's case ?!
15:52:22 <melek> his behaviour and the way he replied to emails
15:52:29 <melek> wasn't really great!!
15:52:54 <regnard> !
15:52:58 <melek> regnard
15:52:58 <Izel> !
15:53:07 <regnard> what would be the risk if he gets booted off the Reps program?
15:53:10 <regnard> eom
15:53:17 <melek> Izel
15:53:23 <melek> same question then regnard!!
15:53:59 <Izel> We must understand one thing: He is very frustrated
15:54:18 <Izel> There are some process in Reps that we must review
15:54:42 <Izel> because he and most of the brazilian reps are non confortable with this
15:54:44 * Debloper in no ways agrees to any of Padula's argument, but thinks clear-uprooting is a bad management strategy - even if it's low impact.
15:54:50 <melek> like the budget review?! I remember his comment was about the time we take to make our decision!
15:54:53 <ioanachiorean> !
15:55:07 <Izel> for example times for budget approval
15:55:10 <Debloper> !
15:55:14 <Izel> melek exactly.
15:55:28 <Izel> eom
15:55:30 <melek> ioanachiorean
15:55:58 <regnard> !
15:56:06 <ioanachiorean> 1 is him the only one fustratedbin Brazil?
15:56:14 <regnard> ? actually
15:56:21 <Izel> !
15:56:23 <ioanachiorean> Sevonds - i xonsider we voted fast on his bug
15:56:25 <ioanachiorean> Eom
15:56:31 <melek> Debloper
15:57:12 <Debloper> I usually tend to assign the person to deal with who complains about something (in local community) - but seems that can't work here.
15:57:27 <Debloper> although, we can set a votin time (48hrs as previously discussed)
15:57:37 * ioanachiorean sorry for writing mistakes - i am going to use the laptop imed
15:57:38 <Debloper> when we are good to declare results
15:57:49 <Debloper> (if majority (5+) votes are casted.)
15:57:51 <Debloper> eom.
15:57:58 <melek> Izel
15:58:04 <ioanachiorean> +1
15:58:22 <Izel> Answering to Ioanachiorean He is not the only one
15:58:27 <melek> pierros's propasal for the vote system was quick enough!!!
15:58:49 <regnard> !
15:58:56 <Izel> other reps are frustrated too but Rodrigo is the most "representative" and sometimes exaggerated
15:59:11 <pierros> !
15:59:14 <Izel> eom
15:59:49 <melek> regnard
16:00:20 <regnard> ok, let's just imagine for a second. Let's imagine we kick him out, will the community be happier/more productive?
16:00:35 <regnard> eom
16:00:46 <Izel> !
16:01:47 <Izel> melek is offline
16:01:52 <regnard> gloria, go ahead
16:02:01 <Izel> but the next  one is Pierros
16:02:18 <regnard> pierros?
16:02:19 <ioana> Yeah. Pierros please go on
16:02:27 <Izel> pierros go on..
16:02:29 <pierros> I think that Izel should try to reach out one last time raising the concerns
16:02:33 <pierros> (once again)
16:03:00 <pierros> but this time make extra clear that this was discussed on council level and he need to change attitude to continue being part of Reps
16:03:01 <pierros> eom
16:03:09 <regnard> !
16:03:12 <Izel> ANswering to regnard: No, tha't not the solution I think
16:03:20 <williamq1> !
16:03:20 <Izel> Rodrigo is a very active member
16:03:29 <Izel> problematic but active
16:03:45 <melek> sorry !! Internet issue!
16:03:49 <regnard> I think we should just tell him that there has been complaints about his communication style and he needs to work on it
16:03:55 <Izel> The problem is the time for budget approval, that's the main problem with them
16:04:01 <williamq1> !
16:04:07 <Izel> and with rodrigo.
16:04:07 <melek> williamq1
16:04:15 <regnard> continuous complaints would eventually merit strong sanctions
16:04:17 <regnard> eom
16:04:24 <ioanachiorean> Izel: `!
16:04:26 <ioanachiorean> !
16:04:47 <williamq1> I think it's important that Gloria Cc the council when reaching out to Rodrigo
16:04:50 <williamq1> Eom
16:04:59 <melek> ioana
16:04:59 <Debloper> +1
16:05:04 <Izel> williamq1 +1
16:05:12 * regnard thinks we need at least 15 more minutes...
16:05:32 <pierros> williamq1: +1
16:05:33 <pierros> regnard: +1
16:05:38 <ioanachiorean> well - i think the problem about budgets i that they do not read SOPs
16:05:40 <melek> regnard the last items are just reminder and quick announcements :)
16:05:56 <ioanachiorean> and think that we are suppost to vote in one 1h all
16:06:33 <ioanachiorean> cause I am getting also other e-mails like - you are assigned on my mail (10min ago)
16:06:44 <ioanachiorean> an you please vote on i.. and I was like LO
16:06:47 <ioanachiorean> :O
16:06:58 <ioanachiorean> we should just remind everyone about budget sops
16:07:00 <ioanachiorean> eom
16:07:06 <Izel> !
16:07:07 <williamq1> !
16:07:09 <melek> +1 !!
16:07:11 <melek> Izel
16:07:41 <Izel> Rodrigo muts to undrestand we need time for voting.
16:07:50 <regnard> !
16:08:03 <Izel> we need to discuss, review, ask questions.. and thi is the procedure
16:08:15 <Izel> the problem is not the council
16:08:38 <Izel> If he does not like the process is ok, we can understand, but where is his proposal?
16:09:02 <regnard> Gloria, when you email Rodrigo, please remind him about others' problems with his communication.
16:09:07 <Izel> I have a meeting in 1 week or more with brazilian community
16:09:25 <Izel> regnard ok
16:09:41 <melek> gloria please also remind all the reps in the meeting
16:09:47 * Debloper thinks we have to be more objective with the discussion. #timeFactor
16:09:49 <melek> about the process of reviewing
16:09:51 <Izel> my plan for the meeting is to show them why whe have this process and ask for new proposals
16:09:54 <melek> the budget requests
16:10:03 <Izel> mekel ok
16:10:07 <Izel> melek *
16:10:14 <Izel> eom
16:10:15 <melek> thanks!!
16:10:20 <melek> williamq1 any input ?
16:10:23 <williamq1> I reminded Rodrigo a million times about reading the sop, Rodrigo I think believes he is above other reps,  I think he truly believes he deserves preferential treatment because of all the great work he does -  he presents himself as of the only ones in the community doing *real* work (anyway that is just my personal experience with him)
16:10:48 <williamq1> I think it's great that izel is meeting with him
16:10:52 <williamq1> eom
16:10:57 <melek> +1
16:11:14 <melek> I think we are done with this!! if we have new problems
16:11:22 <melek> with him after Gloria will talk woth him
16:11:30 <melek> we can figure a more radical solution!!
16:11:58 <melek> okey in the same
16:12:00 <melek> topic
16:12:02 <melek> we have also
16:12:08 <melek> Jean Austin Rodriguez 's case
16:12:17 <melek> Bob said he is really non cooperative
16:12:23 <melek> and don't listen to others !!
16:12:36 <regnard> !
16:12:38 <Izel> !
16:12:38 <melek> reganrd
16:12:42 <melek> *regnard
16:12:43 <regnard> I'll send him an email
16:12:56 <regnard> please make that an action item, melek :)
16:13:08 <melek> regnard you are his mentor?
16:13:35 <regnard> no, but I think it would be good to have a COuncil member step in the soonest possible time
16:13:43 <melek> #action regnard : send an email to Jean Austin about his behavious as rep
16:13:52 <regnard> to send a message that it is serious. If that is OK with everyone
16:13:54 <ioanachiorean> #action regnard will send an email to Jean A.
16:13:55 <regnard> eom
16:14:07 <melek> Okey agree on that! but please get in touch with his mentor before
16:14:14 <melek> to tell him that you will email Jean!!
16:14:48 <melek> #topic Remo camp
16:15:01 <melek> as you saw williamq1's email
16:15:02 <williamq1> so as you saw in my email, we need to push back the camp to September
16:15:06 <regnard> np
16:15:23 <Izel> is ok
16:15:28 <melek> same here!
16:15:30 <williamq1> !
16:15:35 <melek> williamq1
16:15:54 <williamq1> I will run a doodle survey first thing tomorrow morning
16:16:08 <melek> a lot of things to do william for tomorrow :D
16:16:09 <williamq1> I will suggest 4 options in September
16:16:22 <williamq1> the location will be Madrid
16:16:43 <williamq1> that's it for now
16:16:49 <melek> thanks :)
16:16:56 <Debloper> !
16:17:02 <ioanachiorean> for now - meaning it still can be changed?
16:17:03 <melek> deb
16:17:24 <williamq1> no,  it means I have no more info :)
16:17:33 <Debloper> williamq1: won't it be a bit difficult for the reps applying for the US visa in Sept, to attain the ReMo camp at the same time?
16:17:37 <williamq1> all I can say for sure is that it will be in September
16:17:40 <Debloper> eom.
16:18:04 <melek> ow we forgot about that :/
16:18:10 <regnard> !
16:18:13 <melek> regnard
16:18:14 <Debloper> * not only US visa. US/Can& Schengen.
16:18:25 <williamq1> yes,  visas will be problematic either way
16:18:28 <regnard> i guess folks who know who are going to the summit should apply ASAP
16:18:42 <williamq1> right
16:18:43 <regnard> no reason to worry about time
16:18:51 <melek> regnard you need aircraft booking, hotel and invitation
16:18:53 <melek> to apply :s
16:18:59 <regnard> unless you really procrastinated
16:18:59 <Izel> but for visa we need flight and hotel reservations
16:19:11 <williamq1> we can book travel as early as next week
16:19:17 <williamq1> hotel as well
16:19:22 <Debloper> williamq1: problem is, we won't even have the passport with us, may be - it'll be submitted to the embassies (US taking the least time, but still.) how can reps travel to EU for the Remo camp?
16:19:25 <regnard> melek, i mean it would be easier to have something by august
16:19:31 <williamq1> we just need to know which weekend works best
16:19:36 <melek> ah I see!!
16:19:40 <regnard> by then, Reps shouls be able to apply for a schengen visa
16:19:52 <melek> williamq1 we just need to figure the webmaker party
16:20:00 <melek> mark surman is doing a world tour
16:20:05 <williamq1> right
16:20:09 <melek> and many reps will have events in spetember
16:20:11 <melek> !!!
16:20:20 <Debloper> september is packed :(
16:20:20 <regnard> deb: the keyword is do it ASAP. :)
16:20:40 <Debloper> August is still much better - may be last week.
16:20:52 <williamq1> it's not good for will the Europeans
16:21:00 <williamq1> *all
16:21:21 <williamq1> and I will be in the Philippines for a big portion of august
16:21:38 <Izel> !
16:21:43 <williamq1> let's first see the results of the doodle survey
16:21:48 <regnard> any hopes of having it August 31-Sept 1?
16:21:56 <melek> Izel
16:22:00 <williamq1> yes that could zork
16:22:15 <Debloper> regnard: US visa requires docs, lots of it - and we don't yet have them. I'm just asking to be careful so that either we're able to get the summit visa sooner, or remo camp sooner - (counting out the ones who'll need UK visa for mozfest).
16:22:28 <Izel> maybe we could start the Summit visa process ASAP in order to have our passaports ready for the remo camp?
16:22:51 <regnard> deb, you technically have 5 months to process two visas
16:23:01 <Izel> If we start both process soon, we will have our passport ready to travel
16:23:08 <regnard> like i said, unless you procrastinated a lot, you will be in trouble
16:23:15 <ioanachiorean> +1 izel
16:23:26 <melek> yep yep !!
16:23:33 <melek> so let's see the result of the doodle
16:23:40 <regnard> but if you start process ASAP, 5 months should be enough time
16:23:44 <melek> otherwise we can ask william
16:23:52 <melek> or the council members
16:23:59 <melek> who will be in the summit assembly
16:24:02 <melek> to explain this
16:24:03 <Debloper> regnard: considering, I have all the docs ready - which I don't. and expectedly, not till next month. and, it's 4, not 5 months.
16:24:04 <melek> issue!!
16:24:19 <williamq1> I need to find out what Mardi and her team are doing for the visas
16:24:40 <williamq1> I will update the team once I have info
16:24:43 <williamq1> eom
16:24:48 <melek> okey so :)
16:24:54 <melek> thanks a lot williamq1
16:25:02 <melek> #topic announcement: new budget sop
16:25:10 <melek> here the new budget sop https://wiki.mozilla.org/ReMo/SOPs/Budget
16:25:17 <melek> please check it and if you have
16:25:30 <melek> changes or ideas please email me or konstantina :)
16:25:42 <melek> that's it!
16:25:42 <williamq1> !
16:25:47 <melek> williamq1
16:26:01 <williamq1> just a quick heads up that we are now doing western union payments
16:26:12 <melek> YEY !!!!
16:26:15 <williamq1> but only for requests under $200
16:26:22 <Debloper> +1
16:26:24 <melek> small yey so :D
16:26:29 <pierros> :)
16:26:29 <Debloper> well, +1/2 then :P
16:26:31 <melek> But still better
16:26:33 <williamq1> it's not ideal but better than nothing
16:26:37 <melek> :D
16:26:38 <williamq1> Eom
16:26:43 <melek> ABSOLUTLY :)
16:26:47 <Izel> Remember : in LatAm paypal does not work!!! We have been having serious problems with this!
16:26:48 <ioanachiorean> agree
16:27:01 <ioanachiorean> !
16:27:03 <williamq1> !
16:27:04 <melek> ioana
16:27:15 <ioanachiorean> is that the rodrigo mentioned issue?
16:27:17 <ioanachiorean> or some more
16:27:47 <ioanachiorean> cause in Romania it takes also 2-3 days to get the money in y account from paypal - and I can not pull ou tmore than 500 per day
16:27:49 <Izel> ioanachiorean paypal works in Brazil and Mexico but not in  The other countris
16:28:01 * regnard has a hard stop in 7 minutes
16:28:04 <ioanachiorean> so for big mounts i need a week to have teh money :)))
16:28:09 <ioanachiorean> eom
16:28:27 <melek> euhm
16:28:31 <melek> williamq1
16:28:41 <Izel> !
16:28:42 <williamq1> we can now make bank transfers,  for LATAM, for more than $200 requests,  we can do bank transfers
16:29:00 <Debloper> ?
16:29:04 <williamq1> for more info on this, please ask konsrsntkna
16:29:08 <williamq1> Eom
16:29:09 <melek> Izel
16:29:24 <Izel> We could review Payoneer http://www.payoneer.com/
16:29:39 <Izel> is chaper than paypal and cheaper than westernunion
16:29:40 <williamq1> Ah yes, deimidis recommended that
16:29:40 <ioanachiorean> was that Konstantina?
16:29:48 <melek> Yes :D
16:29:52 <williamq1> Yes, konstabtina
16:29:57 <melek> William is on his phone
16:29:59 <Izel> and is esay to get a payoneer card :)
16:30:06 <williamq1> sorry stupid spellchecker
16:30:19 <ioanachiorean> np
16:30:19 <melek> Debloper ?
16:30:21 <Debloper> Can't we make Nx200 transactions for amounts more than 200? :-/
16:30:32 <Izel> Please reviewit. Payoneer could be a good alternative.
16:30:35 <Debloper> dayumn! eom.
16:30:45 * ioanachiorean williamq1 i totally understand
16:30:59 <Debloper> william has left :-/
16:31:16 <melek> Izel I think it's the CA financial services who are really sever about that :s
16:31:37 <Izel> melek can we email them?
16:31:42 <Debloper> move on, may be? keeping it in the funnel for brainstorm. (#idea or something.)
16:31:53 <regnard> +1
16:32:01 <regnard> we can review next meeting
16:32:04 <melek> euhm don't know exactly who to email but maybe we can
16:32:09 <regnard> i think it needs more time anyway
16:32:14 <melek> draft an explained proposal
16:32:22 <melek> yes regnard !!
16:32:24 <Izel> melek westernunion is very expensive, bank transfre is very expensive ... payoneer is cheaper than paypal and easy
16:32:38 <melek> I totally understand Izel
16:32:42 <melek> let's check with
16:32:48 <melek> william when he will be back!!!
16:32:52 <regnard> gloria, let's allot more time for this next meeting.
16:32:58 <regnard> this is a major issue, if you ask me
16:33:16 <melek> #topic deb's task
16:33:25 <melek> Debloper to you :)
16:33:40 <melek> you have three items you want to talk about
16:34:13 <Debloper> yeah, I would like to have a context of last days discussions
16:34:25 <regnard> folks, i'll be leaving in a minute
16:34:29 <Debloper> can someone brief me, which budget request was up for discussion, and what about it?
16:34:37 <regnard> i'll review the logs for the Community Engagement update
16:34:50 <regnard> but if there are special issues to be highlighted, please let me know
16:35:04 <melek> okey regnard !!
16:35:07 <regnard> thanks everyone
16:35:09 <Debloper> also, which proposal? (saw in last meeting's log & notes)
16:35:09 <pierros> thanks regnard!
16:35:09 <regnard> bye!
16:35:12 <Debloper> eom.
16:35:16 <melek> bye bye
16:35:17 <Debloper> bye regnard :)
16:35:22 <Debloper> uh oh
16:35:34 <melek> actually Debloper I added the stategy proposal
16:35:43 <melek> you discussed with william
16:35:49 <Debloper> that one I'll discuss in a min.
16:35:49 <melek> if you remember that
16:35:58 <melek> this was for me last meeting
16:36:07 <melek> for the budget request it was about
16:36:12 <melek> you insia meetup
16:36:12 <Debloper> oh, so meaning that planning bit being the proposal?
16:36:18 <melek> but I think now it's okey
16:36:21 <Debloper> okay, and please update me about the budget thingie
16:36:33 <melek> *India work week
16:36:33 <Debloper> okay, fine.
16:36:36 <melek> I mean :)
16:36:42 <Debloper> so now about the planning & survey:
16:36:47 <melek> yep
16:37:07 <Debloper> 1. The planning part was expecting other council members' suggestions & inputs
16:37:33 <Debloper> but without that I put it in stalling, because I've been a bit too much overwhelmed.
16:37:46 <melek> we understand :)
16:37:48 <Debloper> second bit, the survey I took with mentors, need a suggestion on that
16:38:12 <Debloper> there's a lot of valuable info in that (you all have access to it)
16:38:20 <Debloper> should we ask the reps to fill that up too?
16:38:42 <Debloper> or particularly reach out to a few people who we think might have good inputs?
16:39:03 <Debloper> if we call it's "done" I'm okay to share the survey result.
16:39:10 <Debloper> eom.
16:39:18 <melek> euhmm maybe if you have
16:39:23 <melek> in mind some people
16:39:31 <melek> that you think can fill it
16:39:35 <melek> I think why not
16:39:48 <melek> otherwise having it filled from mentor and council member
16:39:53 <melek> is quit representative :)
16:39:59 <Debloper> I do. But I'd prefer the council members, each knowing important reps from their regions, to share with them too.
16:40:07 <pierros> Debloper: +1
16:40:18 <Debloper> cause my knowledge/knowing all reps may not be (is not) complete.
16:40:27 <Izel> +1 debloper
16:40:37 <melek> why not to share it with the mentor and tell them they have one week or so
16:40:41 <melek> to share the link
16:40:45 <melek> you can fix a dead line
16:40:56 <melek> and close the form after this dead line to announce
16:40:56 <Debloper> okay, so i'll send a brief mail after the meeting with the form link for your ease.
16:40:57 <melek> the result!!
16:41:06 <melek> wonderful
16:41:14 <Debloper> yeah, sure! how about next weekend?
16:41:14 <melek> #action deb to send an email with the form
16:41:29 <melek> yep one week is okey I think!
16:41:39 <Debloper> (then, by the next to that weekend in the council meeting we can discuss the summary)
16:41:50 <Debloper> cool, thanks!
16:42:01 <melek> perfect !!
16:42:05 <Debloper> and action to all members, to please provide input to https://remo.etherpad.mozilla.org/planning-2013
16:42:23 <Debloper> please don't be afraid to moonshot.
16:42:37 <Debloper> thanks!
16:42:41 <pierros> shoot for the stars :)
16:42:51 <Debloper> +1
16:42:53 <melek> anything else Soumya?
16:43:17 <Debloper> melek: no, I think I'm done (unless there's any question.)
16:43:33 <melek> clear from my side :)
16:43:42 <melek> okidoki
16:43:47 <Debloper> (hope, I've explained well, about me being swamped for last two months, which ends by 11th June.)
16:43:59 <melek> :D Yeah
16:44:11 <melek> I think many of us are really more then busy :(
16:44:23 <Debloper> :)
16:44:25 <melek> okey so last reminder
16:44:35 <melek> don't forget to check the voting pad
16:44:44 <Izel> :)
16:44:49 <melek> more then excited for the voting system
16:44:51 <melek> :))
16:45:00 <melek> annnnd thanks to all of you
16:45:00 <pierros> :)
16:45:01 <Debloper> counting on pierros for that!
16:45:07 <melek> it was a long meeting :D
16:45:11 <melek> #endmeeting