17:08:54 <deimidis> #startmeeting
17:08:54 <remobot> Meeting started Sun Jun 22 17:08:54 2014 UTC.  The chair is deimidis. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:08:54 <remobot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:09:07 <kinger> hey peeps
17:09:14 <ThePhoenixBird> hey king
17:09:16 <deimidis> Sayak leave when we start :P
17:09:33 <deimidis> The agenda for this meeting is https://remo.etherpad.mozilla.org/council-meeting-20140622
17:09:53 <rosana> sayak is going home to get a good connection
17:10:24 <deimidis> ok, do we have to give him time? Should we begin later?
17:10:45 <emmairwin> I can only stay until the hour
17:10:52 <rosana> let's get started
17:10:54 <kinger> let's start
17:12:12 <deimidis> ok, #topic Bugs that need discussion
17:12:26 <kinger> irc://irc.mozilla.org:6667/#topic Bugs that need discussion
17:12:56 <deimidis> kinger, strange message
17:13:07 <kinger> I think #topic has to be the start of the sentence
17:13:13 <kinger> anyway...
17:13:14 <deimidis> this was from last week. I think we discuss this bug in an email thread
17:13:38 <deimidis> #topic Bugs that need discussion
17:13:45 <deimidis> kinger, you are right
17:13:50 <rosana> notaspy: I thought you were going to bed
17:13:52 <kinger> ok which bugs?
17:14:11 <ThePhoenixBird> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1018640
17:14:12 <remobot> Bug 1018640: is not accessible.
17:14:12 <deimidis> the bug was about MozEdu Camp at Paraguay
17:14:13 <rosana> yeah, let's fix our bugs!
17:14:45 <deimidis> ThePhoenixBird let a comment in the bug asking for Jefferson answer
17:15:18 <deimidis> I don't konw if we could re-vote later or we should create a new one for this to vote
17:15:26 <emmairwin> what does 16.060 USD equal?   Is that 1606.60 ?
17:16:01 <deimidis> emmairwin, yes
17:16:05 <ThePhoenixBird> yes, i told them to change the date since it was pretty close and the budget was quite high, so it would be the best to leave a bigger buffer for the council to discuss and also to reduce the event to only 2 days in order to save around 15% more in expenses
17:16:07 <emmairwin> k - thanks
17:16:13 <deimidis> in LATAM we use . like , for money
17:16:32 <kinger> what does everyone think of the metrics?
17:16:55 <deimidis> that was another item, some council members ask for better metrics
17:17:27 <kinger> very education focused which is good
17:17:40 <ThePhoenixBird> also it has connected events https://reps.mozilla.org/e/etyc-2014/
17:17:44 <emmairwin> I generally find 'Number of people satisfied with event ' an unhelpful metric.   It's guesswork.
17:17:45 <kinger> but maybe not the right focus in latam right now with Firefox OS
17:17:48 <deimidis> the problem is that the new metrics form, don't let you too many chances to change it
17:17:54 <emmairwin> I like that it's with teachers, I think this is a good metric for education
17:17:59 <rosana> I think this event sounds great, but I think that unfortunately the travel costs are very high, not sure how to go about it
17:18:05 <kinger> emmairwin I agree, don't like that metric in general
17:19:08 <emmairwin> what I would like as a metric on these sorts of events is 'number of teachers/atendees who go on to run their own web maker events.  That's a big goal of maker party
17:19:14 <deimidis> ThePhoenixBird, is not so connected, I think. I know Rocio says that, but I think it's not mandatory
17:20:16 <deimidis> emmairwin, I agree. But like I said, new event form don't have open space metrics, I think
17:20:39 <ThePhoenixBird> considering that they are going to be a whole week at a conference doing webmaker demos, preparing all that people in order to take shifts and do a great presentation, its kinda be connected :P
17:21:11 <deimidis> emmairwin, you have something similar, but not close
17:21:29 <deimidis> ThePhoenixBird, but it's not only Webmaker (the other one)
17:21:59 <ThePhoenixBird> well i dont know too much about it (yet)
17:23:04 <deimidis> so, I think that now we have to discuss: a) how to re-vote an event (this bug time passed)
17:23:31 <deimidis> b) a question emmairwin did on email, should the council have to suggets changes or just approve disapproved
17:23:54 <ThePhoenixBird> a) ping devteam?
17:23:57 <rosana> deimidis: I think that the council has the discussion time for suggestions
17:24:03 <rosana> ThePhoenixBird: absolutely!
17:24:23 <ThePhoenixBird> b) i think that if we are reviewing a budget we are able to do suggestions for changes, that is what it means to �review�
17:24:24 <kinger> SO because of the volume of requests right now, I think it is not our job to re-shape events
17:24:32 <kinger> that is the mentor's responsibility
17:24:56 <kinger> true
17:25:10 <deimidis> rosana, yes, we could discuss. But we have 72, then the requester have to made those changes or not, and we have to vote. I don't know if we have enough time to make it
17:25:11 <kinger> it's a personal call
17:25:39 <rosana> deimidis: let's get all this feedback to the devs, I think the time frame ws chosen for the council to be more efficient
17:25:52 <ThePhoenixBird> what if the mentor review doesnt satisfy the council? we are going to keep postponing events like these, that is why i think that the council should be able to point the flaws that it detects and the final choice of course if for the rep to take or not the suggestions
17:26:21 <kinger> ThePhoenixBird true
17:26:27 <rosana> deimidis: let's document our feedback here: https://remo.etherpad.mozilla.org/voting-tool-feedback
17:26:35 <kinger> not sure how it scales though
17:26:35 <rosana> ThePhoenixBird: agreed!
17:26:49 <ThePhoenixBird> also, it would make more sense for the voting pad to held a bug until mayority votes are reached
17:27:02 <rosana> ThePhoenixBird: I think we ned to be clear about our budget
17:27:11 <ThePhoenixBird> so if you are not convinced you can hold your votes until the bug is fixed/reviewed/ammended
17:27:13 <deimidis> so, we (council) could say: it's no, but we suggest this changes
17:27:16 <emmairwin> Yes lets  - put to vote, with comments explaining anything we think can be changed should we vote no.
17:27:17 <rosana> and then help the mentors help their reps
17:27:38 <rosana> emmairwin: great point, that's why we should have the comments
17:27:44 <kinger> Can reps see the vote comments?
17:27:48 <kinger> I think now
17:27:49 <ThePhoenixBird> not sure
17:27:53 <kinger> * not
17:28:02 <kinger> we'd have to copy/paste in teh bug
17:28:22 <emmairwin> no - but if the budget is denied, I believe it is council's obligation to summarize those comments to effectively empower the Rep and Mentor to make changes
17:28:29 <emmairwin> when they update the bug
17:28:55 <deimidis> well, internal discussion could have some suggestions and who update the budget add the comments
17:29:02 <kinger> ok let's go with that then
17:29:06 <rosana> emmairwin: agreed
17:29:15 <rosana> also I think that we should work towards more transparency
17:29:38 <deimidis> Could we add an open comment box for events metrics?
17:29:40 <rosana> if a rep understands how much of the monthly budget their event is covering it might be easier for them to understand why the council can't approve something
17:29:41 <kinger> hey sayak
17:29:57 <deimidis> rosana, agree
17:30:01 <sayak> hey kinger
17:30:29 <sayak> finally got the irc configured in the phone.
17:30:32 <sayak> :-)
17:30:37 <emmairwin> If council finds itself voting-down budgets for a reoccurring reason like, too many Reps to participant, or costs greater than %   , it might be good to document those somewhere as well so Reps can learn from each other.
17:31:16 <rosana> emmairwin:  makes total sense
17:31:24 <kinger> there is a strong case to be made that all large budget's over $X should be 'Special'
17:31:29 <rosana> if we have a sense of sharing a budget it would be easier for everyone
17:31:45 <kinger> But some don't fit into a box where we can easily identify where the special budget comes from
17:31:59 <kinger> and this is one
17:32:03 <ThePhoenixBird> rosana, that is why we should start to work with that post about our costs/expenses and budget overall
17:32:06 <deimidis> or maybe that team don't want to do it
17:32:19 <kinger> indeed
17:32:21 <ThePhoenixBird> it will create awareness on the reps on how much we expend, and the harsh desitions that the council has to make
17:32:44 <kinger> let's add an action to create a comms plan to all Reps for budget
17:33:10 <kinger> #action create budget communication plan
17:34:02 <ThePhoenixBird> kinger, deimidis is the meeting owner, he is the one to use the commands
17:34:50 <deimidis> I think action could be use by everyone
17:35:05 <deimidis> #action rosana create budget communication plan
17:35:22 <deimidis> but you have to add someone to that (sorry rosana )
17:36:00 <rosana> I'll take the action item :)
17:36:31 <deimidis> Ok, time to chenge topic. Anyone has anything else to say?
17:37:35 <kinger> no
17:38:13 <deimidis> #topic How long is our list of pendent Reps?
17:38:21 <deimidis> rosana ^^
17:38:36 * kinger checks
17:39:07 <kinger> 12
17:39:13 <deimidis> #action Update MozEdu Camp bug
17:39:34 <deimidis> that's not so big number, then
17:39:52 <kinger> not huge
17:39:56 <deimidis> could we answer those 12 this week? Maybe if we meet on Friday we could make it
17:40:00 <kinger> but still needs action
17:40:13 <ThePhoenixBird> kinger, are they from a specific region?
17:40:30 <kinger> Yes we will triage these tomorrow
17:40:36 <kinger> most from India it seems
17:40:41 <ThePhoenixBird> it would be cool to make some study about how is the density of applicants by region over the past years
17:41:10 <kinger> I think Pierros has some of that data
17:41:23 <kinger> maybe not per region
17:41:55 <deimidis> so kinger did you need help on this?
17:42:48 <kinger> not right now deimidis but we do need to do the other in limbo bugs
17:43:27 <deimidis> kinger, which are the limbo bugs? What do you mean with it?
17:43:51 <kinger> bugs from all mentors that need action
17:44:01 <kinger> forgotten bugs
17:44:10 <kinger> too long in orientation, etc
17:44:28 <kinger> over 250
17:44:49 <ThePhoenixBird> ahhh, yea, THAT
17:45:10 <deimidis> ok, so maybe some of them are resolved ones, but never updated
17:45:10 <ThePhoenixBird> well i think that the first step would be to update the mentoring SOP, it doesnt states when the Orientation Period ends
17:45:21 <rosana> ThePhoenixBird: good idea
17:45:37 <rosana> in general having some sort of dashboard would be great
17:45:49 <kinger> ok next topic?
17:45:50 <rosana> maybe we can ask our rep-devs friends to help us
17:46:03 <ThePhoenixBird> i think that a 3 month Orientation Period is enough for the Rep to catch up on all the SOPs and have their first couple of online/offline events
17:46:53 <kinger> firstly we need a simple remonder to all mentors to update all their bugs
17:47:31 <emmairwin> is there a batch way to do that in Bugzilla?
17:47:44 <kinger> YESS!
17:47:47 <kinger> good idea
17:48:31 <deimidis> ok, that's a good first step
17:48:41 <emmairwin> batch-update all bugs with status of orientation period, signature pending and mentor assigned where not updated in > 3 months ?
17:48:53 <ThePhoenixBird> YES
17:49:01 <rosana> kinger: great idea
17:49:06 <ThePhoenixBird> lets the email tsunami begin!!!
17:49:11 <emmairwin> that's an action item then.
17:49:15 <kinger> it was emmairwins idea
17:49:31 <ThePhoenixBird> i think that email is the only way for mentors to notice that
17:49:40 <deimidis> #action release the email batch
17:49:46 <ThePhoenixBird> probably a post on the reps-mentors first would the a nice first approach
17:49:59 <ThePhoenixBird> more inbox friendly
17:50:11 <deimidis> ThePhoenixBird, I think the same time is ok.
17:50:27 <emmairwin> yes - a FYI you'll see some emails - more communication is always better
17:50:28 <deimidis> we have 10 minutes left, and still in the second item
17:50:42 <deimidis> a) we could add more time to the meeting
17:50:51 <deimidis> b) we could make a new meeting next week
17:50:57 <deimidis> c) both
17:51:39 <emmairwin> I can go a little longer - basically when my family comes home I have to go :)
17:51:45 <ThePhoenixBird> a
17:51:53 <emmairwin> c)
17:52:29 <deimidis> we have people exhausted, half of today's council
17:52:47 <kinger> yes
17:53:23 <deimidis> So, I suggest new meeting next week (someone else have to lead it)
17:53:52 <deimidis> and I will send an email to the council with the agenda. I think there's some items we could discuss and vote by email in this week
17:53:53 <ThePhoenixBird> ok
17:54:06 <emmairwin> Do you think, people could add their comments to the remaining agenda items, so we can fast track those next time?
17:54:16 <deimidis> (like emmairwin suggestion to send this log to the mailing list)
17:54:21 <emmairwin> or yes - what deimidis said
17:54:32 <ThePhoenixBird> i could add more topics to the agenda, but i feel that we will never end it hahaha
17:54:57 <deimidis> what do you think is best: a) email thread or b) etherpad comments
17:55:00 <deimidis> ?
17:55:24 <rosana> ThePhoenixBird: that's true :(
17:55:44 <rosana> we never go through all the items :(
17:55:44 <ThePhoenixBird> A
17:55:57 <ThePhoenixBird> etherpad is kinda messy for debate
17:56:42 <emmairwin> for me ether pad is perfect for getting everyone's thoughts down.   More personal or sensitive topics in email
17:56:44 <rosana> how are the discussions over email?
17:56:50 <deimidis> #action deimidis Send an email with remaining items to discuss with the council
17:56:53 <rosana> emmairwin: super big +1
17:57:13 <kinger> +1
17:58:04 <ThePhoenixBird> +1
17:58:15 <ThePhoenixBird> sayak go to sleep, we finished
17:59:05 <deimidis> So, if I understand emmairwin suggestion, I could create some special etherpads for item discussion, and we vote by email sensitive items
17:59:10 <sayak_bugsmith> :(
17:59:19 <sayak_bugsmith> I just got to my computer!
17:59:32 <sayak_bugsmith> BTW can someone please send out the logs
17:59:41 <kinger> thank you everyone
17:59:42 <emmairwin> I will send out the logs  to reps-general
17:59:49 <kinger> will follow up tomorrow
17:59:51 <emmairwin> thanks everyone, enjoy your sleep India
17:59:56 <sayak_bugsmith> My connection was dropping a lot and i missed quite a few bits
18:00:05 <deimidis> thanks everyone
18:00:15 <sayak_bugsmith> thanks emmairwin! :)
18:00:33 <deimidis> #endmeeting