20:42:15 <ThePhoenixBird> #startmeeting Mozilla LATAM Reps Regional Meeting August 2014
20:42:15 <remobot> Meeting started Sun Aug 24 20:42:15 2014 UTC.  The chair is ThePhoenixBird. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:42:15 <remobot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
20:42:22 <Jusai> hola!
20:42:27 <ThePhoenixBird> welcome
20:42:29 <ThePhoenixBird> first of all
20:42:35 <ThePhoenixBird> we are going to have some rules
20:43:04 <ThePhoenixBird> if you want to intervene and say something, please ask for permission first with a �!�
20:43:20 <ThePhoenixBird> the moderator (me) will tell you when you can intervene
20:43:45 <ThePhoenixBird> after you finish your idea, please write (END)
20:44:11 <ThePhoenixBird> those are simple rules to avoid a mixup and confusion reading the logs
20:44:20 <ThePhoenixBird> is this clear for everyone?
20:44:26 <M0ra> Yup.
20:44:28 <luigui_> yep
20:44:34 <tehsis> yes
20:44:40 <mautematico_np> (y)
20:44:43 <ThePhoenixBird> #link https://remo.etherpad.mozilla.org/reps-latam-regional-meeting-aug2014
20:45:01 <ThePhoenixBird> we have an etherpad, feel free to write down on it, and help me take notes :)
20:45:27 <ThePhoenixBird> so
20:45:29 <ThePhoenixBird> lets start
20:45:33 <ThePhoenixBird> #topic Announcements
20:46:01 <ThePhoenixBird> As you might probably know, there are now Mozilla Reps Weekly Calls happening on vidyo
20:46:35 <ThePhoenixBird> This calls are open for everyone to join, and the amazing team behind it created it as another way for interaction between mentors, apprentices and the council
20:47:41 <ThePhoenixBird> As a current Council member, our goal over the past months are to improve our transparency to everyone, to make things more open for everyone, sometimes this role is hard due the large loads of work, but we want you guys to know what we are doing now and how you can help us to improve.
20:48:18 <ThePhoenixBird> There is a calendar link for those meetings... (searching)
20:49:18 <ThePhoenixBird> #link https://wiki.mozilla.org/ReMo/Meetings#ReMo_weekly_call
20:49:49 <ThePhoenixBird> there is, feel free to join on those weekly calls and share your ideas and thoughts with the rest
20:50:20 <ThePhoenixBird> * Another important topic is the MozFest
20:50:51 <ThePhoenixBird> as you may know, the application to attend the MozFest is open until August 25th
20:51:25 <ThePhoenixBird> After we close the application process, the Council will review all the applications and announce the selected Reps on September 2nd
20:52:13 <ThePhoenixBird> if you have more questions regarding the MozFest please check the FAQ
20:52:17 <ThePhoenixBird> #link https://wiki.mozilla.org/ReMo/Mozilla_Festival_2014#FAQ
20:53:15 <ThePhoenixBird> * Last but not least, we want to let you all know that sadly, the Grow Events for 2014 have been cancelled, those are the previously called MozCamps
20:54:26 <ThePhoenixBird> the reason for this, is that after the Grow India events and the feedback gathered from the participants and many other people, they let us know that we are focusing too much on growing in numbers, but not on the quality and impact of the contributions.
20:55:35 <ThePhoenixBird> While our goal is still to grow to 1 million mozillians, we want to be sure that that growth is actually being done naturally and we wont lose the quality and impact of the contributions from those mozillians.
20:56:21 <ThePhoenixBird> So the Community Building team is now working on a new framework and ideas about how to make those Grow Events aligned with the growth of the mozillians but to also help us improve the quality and impact of our contributions.
20:56:59 <ThePhoenixBird> you can check this blogpost by David Boswell about it
20:57:02 <ThePhoenixBird> #link http://davidwboswell.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/quality-over-quantity/
20:57:22 <maedca> Hola
20:57:26 <ThePhoenixBird> so
20:57:49 <ThePhoenixBird> any questions? (please remember to use the ! sign and wait for your turn)
20:58:21 <maedca> The meeting is in English?  For latam
20:58:26 <ThePhoenixBird> yes
20:58:33 <maedca> Ok
20:58:51 <ThePhoenixBird> any questions about the annoncements? (please remember to use the ! sign and wait for your turn)
20:59:39 <ThePhoenixBird> ok
20:59:45 <ThePhoenixBird> lets move to the next topic :)
21:00:05 <ThePhoenixBird> #topic BUDGET SOPS
21:01:09 <ThePhoenixBird> You might not have noticed yet, but under the hood there have been several changes to the way the Council approves the budgets over USD$500 now
21:01:44 <Urcu> Hi
21:01:50 <ThePhoenixBird> Currently we moved from old tools like spreadsheets to new fancy tools integrated into the Reps portal
21:01:52 <Urcu> sorry for delay on it
21:02:18 <danybautista> hi everyone
21:02:26 <ThePhoenixBird> gime a second and i will show you how the new voting panel works
21:02:37 <sanux> hi everyone
21:02:40 <ThePhoenixBird> btw, to the ones that just joined, we are in the middle of the meeting
21:02:54 <ThePhoenixBird> here is our etherpad https://remo.etherpad.mozilla.org/reps-latam-regional-meeting-aug2014
21:02:56 <ThePhoenixBird> :)
21:05:10 <ThePhoenixBird> here is how it looks the new Council voting pad
21:05:12 <ThePhoenixBird> #link http://imgur.com/0e4IoeC
21:05:31 <Junior> hi
21:05:36 <ThePhoenixBird> as you can see, its more organized and efficient
21:06:07 <luigui_> nice
21:06:15 <ThePhoenixBird> we can quickly browse on all the open budgets and make our votes on a simple voting platform like the ones you have used to select the current Reps Council
21:06:24 <ThePhoenixBird> but this imply a few changes to the BUDGET SOP
21:07:02 <ThePhoenixBird> the most important is that now once a budget over USD$500 is passed to the Council it has a START DATE and a END DATE
21:07:09 <Urcu> :)
21:07:20 <ThePhoenixBird> this dates are 7 DAYS apart
21:07:37 <ThePhoenixBird> that means, that the Council now have a fixed time of 7 days to review and vote a budget
21:08:17 <ThePhoenixBird> so we cant speed up the things until the END DATE is reached
21:08:26 <ThePhoenixBird> and the voting ends
21:08:45 <maedca> !
21:08:55 <ThePhoenixBird> A few of the ones present here might have noticed this effect recently on their budgets
21:09:18 <ThePhoenixBird> yes maedca, ask your question.
21:09:20 <maedca> What happen if a council member forgot the voting?
21:09:28 <Izel> :) :)
21:09:59 <ThePhoenixBird> For a budget to be APPROVED it needs 5 possitive votes from the council.
21:10:18 <ThePhoenixBird> When a Council member havent voted they are annoyed by email by this hell tool :P
21:10:43 <ThePhoenixBird> but, if for some reason the voting havent reached a conclusion it is extended 48 hours.
21:11:05 <ThePhoenixBird> that means 7 days regular + 2 days if needs voting extension
21:11:06 <maedca> Ok thanks xd
21:11:15 <ThePhoenixBird> now, here comes the most important thing
21:11:45 <ThePhoenixBird> almost ALL the budgets that faced extensions in the last month where because they lacked information and documentation
21:12:19 <ThePhoenixBird> Its normal for the Council to ask questions to the budget owner so he can confirm and provide more details about his budget
21:12:22 <deimidis> !
21:12:57 <ThePhoenixBird> Other times the problem is that the Council have troubles deciding over the budget and face extensions because we are not totally convinced about the proposed event.
21:13:01 <ThePhoenixBird> go ahead deimidis
21:14:16 <deimidis> just to clarify that 5 votes is ok between 500 and 5000 budget request
21:15:00 <deimidis> end
21:15:52 <ThePhoenixBird> true
21:16:36 <ThePhoenixBird> on budgets over USD$5000 the total mayority of the council is needed to get the budget approved.
21:17:19 <ThePhoenixBird> While the Council can do their best to review your budgets, if we require you to make changes, adjusts and look for alternatives, etc. Then this takes a lot of time
21:18:11 <ThePhoenixBird> So we are again asking you to submit your big budgets (over USD$500) with at least 3 weeks prior to the event date, provide as much detailed documentation you can, and make sure that your event metrics match your event type.
21:18:16 <Urcu> think you have to teach some reps how to create a budget to avoid headaches tantod
21:18:28 <Urcu> I know some cases :)
21:18:55 <ThePhoenixBird> So you can take on your planning, that you need at least 1 week and maybe 2 extra days if your event is not clear to get approved by the Council.
21:19:16 <Urcu> how document the event for easy read by de council etc
21:19:37 <ThePhoenixBird> So play safe with your events and submit your budgets with plenty of time, we know that sometimes its difficult to plan ahead most of times when invitations to events ocurr on the last minutes.
21:19:58 <ThePhoenixBird> (Urcu please use the ! sign to ask for voice to make questions)
21:20:04 <ThePhoenixBird> but answering your questions
21:20:48 <ThePhoenixBird> We at the Council review several things when going over a budget, most of it about the GOAL of your event, what do you want to create, what will you get after it, how many people will you reach
21:20:51 <Izel> !
21:21:17 <Urcu> ThePhoenixBird: ok, sorry :)
21:21:28 <ThePhoenixBird> Also we review your event Description, and Agenda, if you dont provide us with this information its very difficult for us to imagine the kind of event that you want to create
21:22:03 <Izel> -!
21:22:10 <ThePhoenixBird> We also check for your travel plans, if you travel by plane, accomodation prices, transport prices, just to see if its really important to fly people over
21:22:17 <ThePhoenixBird> go ahead Izel
21:22:50 <Izel> no, I said -! You said something thata answered my question.
21:24:08 <ThePhoenixBird> :)
21:24:15 <ThePhoenixBird> so
21:24:56 <ThePhoenixBird> The Council check the description and purpose of the event, most of times this consist of a few lines in the event page details, then you might have an idea of how difficult is sometimes to evaluate a budget based on a poor event description.
21:25:37 <ThePhoenixBird> Also, please make sure to explain on your event description which of the mozilla goals aligns with your event (teach the web, developer evangelism, etc.)
21:25:57 <ThePhoenixBird> If you have other mozillians attending your event, please ask them to sign in on the event page
21:26:13 <ThePhoenixBird> METRICS METRICS METRICS METRICS METRICS
21:26:57 <danybautista> para que esto rinda un poco mas porque no escribes en español?
21:27:01 <ThePhoenixBird> This is really important because the metrics gives us an idea of what you expect to happen after your event, the kind of IMPACT that will have your event in your community, while creating metrics, try to be realist
21:27:24 <ThePhoenixBird> danybautista, la idea es que sea en ingles para que el log sea accesible para todos en el programa.
21:27:43 <Urcu> yep
21:27:45 <ThePhoenixBird> and finally the BUDGET BREAKDOWN
21:28:03 <ThePhoenixBird> sometimes the costs on the budgets are too generally described, like
21:28:19 <ThePhoenixBird> transport for 4: $1000
21:28:28 <ThePhoenixBird> food $300
21:28:51 <ThePhoenixBird> but you dont say, if for example its transport for who, from where to someplace.
21:29:07 <ThePhoenixBird> how many people are you transporting, is this a round trip?
21:29:31 <ThePhoenixBird> also for food expenses as well, let us know how many times you plan to eat with that budget, for example
21:29:49 <ThePhoenixBird> 2 dinners, 2 lunch: $300
21:29:53 <ThePhoenixBird> or
21:30:04 <ThePhoenixBird> 2 dinners and 2 lunch for 4 people: $1200
21:30:15 <ThePhoenixBird> makes sense what i try to explain?
21:30:39 <ThePhoenixBird> this problem appears most of times on events with lots of people attending
21:31:02 <ThePhoenixBird> So to prevent to have the Council asking you for a more detailed budget breakdown on certain things, please do this ahead of time :)
21:31:18 <ThePhoenixBird> it might save you a budget voting extension if you follow the past recommendations
21:31:37 <ThePhoenixBird> and get your budget approved on time
21:31:48 <ThePhoenixBird> any questions? (please use the ! sign to ask for voice)
21:32:17 <mautematico_np> !
21:32:25 <ThePhoenixBird> mautematico_np, go ahead
21:32:34 <mautematico_np> From the pad "    When a budget is passed to the Council, new voting system, requires 7 days for voting, NO LESS, extensions"
21:32:50 <mautematico_np> I understand there can be even _more_ time to vote.
21:32:56 <ThePhoenixBird> yes
21:33:12 <ThePhoenixBird> we can extend a voting for 48 hours (its done automatically if no mayority is reached)
21:33:46 <mautematico_np> But, what happen if, let's say, this week was "easy" and my budget request reaches 5 positive votes in the first two days,
21:33:47 <ThePhoenixBird> if after 48 hours a budget is not finalized with a mayority on approved or denied, its automatically DENIED.
21:34:43 <mautematico_np> will you guys "auto-aprove" that, because it has 5+ positive votes, or 7 days is _hard_ min?
21:34:53 <ThePhoenixBird> mautematico_np, for the current SOP you still have to wait for the END DATE of the budget to get announced, voting periods are decided so all the council members can express their opinions about the budget
21:35:10 <mautematico_np> Thanks.
21:35:13 <mautematico_np> End.
21:37:44 <ThePhoenixBird> Current system is designed so all the council members have a period to express their vote and opinions on a budget, while your budget might be approved by 5 votes and nothning will change that, there is still other 4 council members that pending to express their vote and opinion, they might approve as well, but they might disaprove for a reason and they should be able to express this on a set period of time.
21:38:28 <ThePhoenixBird> Also, until the END DATE of a voting, the Council member can change their vote until the last minute
21:39:22 <ThePhoenixBird> this is for example, a case of badly documented event, at first sight is a NO NO for the council and i vote early on Dissaprove, but after dicussion and reviewing the budget a few times, it can be possible to approve, so i can change my vote.
21:39:44 <ThePhoenixBird> So even if you have 5 votes early, it doesnt mean that the Council members cant change their votes until the last minute.
21:40:00 <ThePhoenixBird> That is why we have a _hard_ END DATE
21:40:16 <ThePhoenixBird> more questions?
21:41:08 <ThePhoenixBird> #topic Reps Program Updates
21:41:56 <ThePhoenixBird> #chair Gauthamraj Elango
21:41:56 <remobot> Current chairs: Elango Gauthamraj ThePhoenixBird
21:42:15 <ThePhoenixBird> opps wrong command
21:42:33 <ThePhoenixBird> #topic Events
21:42:38 <ThePhoenixBird> EVENTS
21:43:32 <ThePhoenixBird> As recently, BIG events requiring Reps travelling around by air, are required to go by ProTravel to buy the tickets
21:44:37 <ThePhoenixBird> This is to alliviate the accounting problem on large sums of money on buying air tickets, and waiting for the receipts, so if you send a BIG budget to the Council and we require you to use ProTravel to buy your tickets for you, please dont get suprised
21:45:34 <ThePhoenixBird> Also, if you are going to travel and need accomodation we invite you to use Air BnB instead of Hotels, they are way cheaper
21:46:09 <ThePhoenixBird> Of course, this might not apply to all your countries, but if you can find a good and cheap place in Air BnB instead of paying for a hotel, then its preffered.
21:46:34 <ThePhoenixBird> #link https://remo.etherpad.mozilla.org/reps-latam-regional-meeting-aug2014
21:46:46 <ThePhoenixBird> #topic Open Discussion
21:47:04 <ThePhoenixBird> Now, let me hear about your countries and what problems might you be facing.
21:47:19 <ThePhoenixBird> Let us know if we at the Council can help you
21:47:37 <ThePhoenixBird> ... you can speak now...
21:48:24 <ThePhoenixBird> come on guys, dont be shy
21:48:46 <mautematico_np> :p
21:49:00 <Izel> !
21:49:07 <ThePhoenixBird> GLORIA adelante
21:49:22 <Izel> We stiil having problems with Paypal + Payoneer.
21:49:41 <ThePhoenixBird> What kind of problems?
21:49:55 <Izel> I woudl like you still working with the council looking for a way to send the payments using other way
21:50:33 <Izel> The problem is the time and the cost. Transfering miney from paypal to payonneer takes 4 working days
21:50:47 <deimidis> !
21:50:57 <ThePhoenixBird> short answer: YES and we found out a new method of payment for Reps, but i dont know if i can announce this now since its not finished/signed
21:51:13 <Izel> and, getting the money (by an ATM) has a huge cost and the money changue value is not the standar
21:51:31 <ThePhoenixBird> Please wait until RemoCamp by that time i think that we will have good news from Rosana
21:52:09 <ThePhoenixBird> davidwboswell,
21:52:11 <ThePhoenixBird> deimidis,
21:52:24 <Izel> Unfortunatelly I won't attend the remoCamp :( but I hope hear good news :)
21:52:28 <Izel> end
21:52:42 <ThePhoenixBird> Izel, :(
21:53:03 <deimidis> almost the same that your answer, but adding a question, Izel did you know any service that could work for Colombia?
21:53:55 <Izel> payoneer works Ok. But Mozilla must be one of their affilliantes
21:54:21 <Izel> I mean, Mozilla must subscribe itself to Payoneer as a trust company to send payments
21:54:25 <ThePhoenixBird> Based on our research, we found that Mozilla cant be an affilate of Payoneer :(
21:54:52 <ThePhoenixBird> At least without incurring in huge tax problems
21:55:16 <Izel> Western Union works ok, but the process with Mozilla is very slow
21:55:26 <Urcu> !
21:55:46 <Izel> ThePhoenixBird Why Not?
21:56:17 <ThePhoenixBird> Izel, so far i know accounting and legal dept said it wasnt possible
21:56:44 <Izel> :O
21:57:03 <Izel> end
21:57:18 <ThePhoenixBird> Urcu, go
21:57:56 <Urcu> I have a easy method for that
21:58:07 <ThePhoenixBird> Izel, please read #5 on https://pubs.payoneer.com/files/tc/TermsPayoneerUSPaymentService.pdf
21:59:05 <Izel> :O
21:59:13 <ThePhoenixBird> Izel, it reads: � Personal use such as gifts, loans or payments from friends and family;
21:59:16 <Urcu> my idea is, have the same paypal accpunt, and ona single payoneer account (in this case, one mozillian have the payoneer accout)
21:59:30 <Urcu> (personal payoneer account)
21:59:40 <ThePhoenixBird> Izel, are prohibit
21:59:50 <Izel> :( .
22:00:07 <Urcu> and re-distribuiote the funds into another mozillians payoner accounts
22:01:01 <Urcu> I do not know myself clear?
22:01:22 <couci> hey guys ,Konstantina here, I've been reading your comments, we've asked the accounting department for a payoneer account but they decline it :(
22:01:28 <ThePhoenixBird> the problem is Urcu, that what you propose goes agaisnt the TOS of Payoneer, and you can have your accont blocked for tat
22:01:54 <Urcu> but something was helping with the community of bangladesh
22:01:58 <Urcu> end
22:02:22 <Izel> couci :( :(
22:02:55 <Urcu> is not my case :)
22:03:07 <couci> hey Urcu what we were doing with the bangladesh community was an exception and we can't do it on regular bases
22:03:09 <Urcu> why goes against?
22:03:19 <lasr21> bitcoins, bitcoins, bitcoins!!!!
22:03:32 <Izel> !
22:03:42 <ThePhoenixBird> Let me explain
22:03:53 <ThePhoenixBird> Payoneer as regular is fine for personal use
22:04:31 <ThePhoenixBird> BUT, if you want to have company transfer funds to you, then it must be a PAYMENT (as a paycheck) not as a DONATION, that is prohibited by Payoneer TOS
22:05:19 <ThePhoenixBird> As personal use, other people use they Payoneer card to transfer funds to your account, or use their payoneer card directly to pay you.
22:05:27 <ThePhoenixBird> This is from Person to Person
22:05:59 <Izel> you can read what ThePhoenixBird says here: (pag 2-3) https://pubs.payoneer.com/files/tc/TermsPayoneerUSPaymentService.pdf
22:05:59 <ThePhoenixBird> But to do it officially and un BULK *large amounts of money* we need to process those as Payments not as DONATIONS
22:06:14 <Urcu> but, the transfer personal-to-personal is as normal payment on payoneer
22:06:18 <Urcu> right?
22:06:25 <ThePhoenixBird> and under Paypal TOS that is not allowed.
22:06:40 <ThePhoenixBird> yes Urcu, but we cant do that all the time, as an official method for Reps
22:07:16 <ThePhoenixBird> you are basically blanking money from person A to deliver it to person B
22:07:19 <ThePhoenixBird> :P
22:07:21 <couci> Urcu to do that as an official method we needed a mozilla account
22:07:25 <Urcu> ThePhoenixBird: yes, i know, and exists an limit for payments
22:08:10 <ThePhoenixBird> as couci we need a Mozilla Corporate account to transfer money to Reps, but we cant send them as DONATIONS, so it will be a pain in the ass for the accounting team
22:08:20 <Urcu> couci: so I was told, the corporative account
22:08:24 <ThePhoenixBird> and it may cause legal problems.
22:08:38 <ThePhoenixBird> well
22:09:01 <ThePhoenixBird> on other words, i wasnt supposed to say this, but Western Union seems like the next official method of payments for Reps
22:09:03 <ThePhoenixBird> dont lose hope
22:09:26 <couci> along with paypal we are going to keep both
22:09:51 <couci> if everything goes smoothly with western union
22:09:51 <ThePhoenixBird> we havent finished up the contract thing, but Mozilla is going to have a ONG account in Western Union and we can then send electronically payments via Western Union
22:10:21 <ThePhoenixBird> those are INSTANT, and once sent, you can walk in to any WU agency and claim your money
22:10:23 <Urcu> I dont know what's the legal problem (sorry)
22:10:27 <ThePhoenixBird> no delays, no withdraw times
22:11:21 <ThePhoenixBird> i see in the etherpad a few things
22:11:27 <ThePhoenixBird> What are right/wrong Reps roles?
22:11:34 <ThePhoenixBird> It would be interesting to discuss about the external roles that Reps play in terms of interacting with external institutions, governments, universities, etc In terms of reaching out with ideas, projects and projects and the back up that can be expected from Mozilla in this cases and to what extent we as Reps can get involved in this matters in name of Mozilla and its current goals and endeavors.
22:11:34 <Urcu> but I think if 2 or three mozillian doing the same process (like me) with paypal and payoneer
22:11:57 <Urcu> are within the legal policy
22:12:33 <ThePhoenixBird> Urcu, no, those are your personal accounts, the problem is other.
22:12:42 <couci> well Urcu we can't rely our official policy on 2-3 mozillians good will
22:13:57 <couci> I truly appreciate all your help but if we want our reimbursement methods to work all over the world we need something more "steady"
22:14:00 <Urcu> couci you are totally right
22:14:15 <ThePhoenixBird> #topic What are right/wrong Reps roles?
22:14:42 <ThePhoenixBird> have you had troubles interacting with xternal institutions, governments, universities, etc In terms of reaching out
22:14:54 <Urcu> couci: really I forgot this part (the trust)
22:15:59 <ThePhoenixBird> well
22:16:08 <ThePhoenixBird> this meetign went very long :P
22:16:16 <ThePhoenixBird> and i dont want to take more of your time
22:16:22 <ThePhoenixBird> if anyone has anything else to say?
22:16:26 <ThePhoenixBird> please do it now
22:17:03 <ThePhoenixBird> remember that you can add your ideas and thoughts on this etherpad
22:17:06 <ThePhoenixBird> #link https://remo.etherpad.mozilla.org/reps-latam-regional-meeting-aug2014
22:17:27 <Urcu> very long and productive
22:17:32 <lasr21> !
22:17:41 <ThePhoenixBird> lasr21, adelante
22:17:42 <mautematico_np> !
22:17:44 <lasr21> #noerapenal
22:17:45 <lasr21> end
22:17:48 <ThePhoenixBird> XD
22:17:53 <ThePhoenixBird> mautematico_np, go
22:17:54 <mautematico_np> nevermind :(
22:18:25 <ThePhoenixBird> I will be collecting your thougths and ideas to take them to the Remo Camp 2014 later in september
22:19:17 <ThePhoenixBird> please let me know by email at amartinez [at] mozillavenezuela [dot] org if you are facing troubles in your country and how the Council can help you, and suggestions on how to improve the Reps Program
22:19:41 <ThePhoenixBird> THANK YOU ALL FOR COMMING!
22:20:10 <ThePhoenixBird> #endmeeting